Overview & Scrutiny Committee - Monday 19 October 2026, 6:30pm

Overview & Scrutiny Committee
Monday, 19th October 2026 at 6:30pm

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Good evening, everyone, and welcome to the overview and scrutiny committee meeting.

My name is Councillor Halima Islam, Chair of Overview and Scrutiny Committee.

Can I remind everyone that this meeting is being filmed for the Council's website for

public viewing.

Those participating in the meeting will be included in the footage.

If there are any technical issues, I will decide if and how the meeting should continue

after taking advice from officers.

Can I remind members should only speak on my direction and ensure to speak clearly into

the microphones. A polite reminder for members present that they have committed through the

members pledge to treat one another with dignity and respect, to give others the opportunity

to speak, to listen to different viewpoints and ensure that challenge is constructive

and inclusive. I look forward to seeing all attendees demonstrate this commitment through

their conduct this evening. Tonight our main order of business includes

reviewing call in on Copenhagen place scheme, the Borough Commander Spotlight and Be Well

Leisure Centres.

By way of an update, I wanted to let the Committee know we were due to consider the Youth Justice

Annual Plan update 2026 -27, but I've had to pull this report as it hasn't been considered

by MAB.

We will need to take it at the next meeting if feasible.

On to apologies for absence.

Naseema, can you advise if we have any from presenting officers or committee members?

No, we haven't received any apologies, Chair.

Thank you.

Declaration of pecuniary interest.

Can members introduce themselves formally and declare whether they have any

discloseable pecuniary interests and indicate which aspect the interest

relates to, say whether their interest is of personal or fiducial nature.

Thank you Chair and good evening everyone.

I'm Councillor Gholam Kibriya Choudhury but I want to clear my position

I was the development committee member and SDC committee member.

Thank you, Councillor.

Can you note that?

Thank you, chair.

Councillor Kamrul -Hussein, no DPI, but in 7 .2 in Tower Hunters River leisure centre,

I will withdraw myself.

I believe it is a conflict of interest for me as I was the previous lead member on this

portfolio.

I will remain in the meeting but I will not take part in any discussion.

In terms of the calling, again, I was the chair of the planning committee and vice chair

of SDC.

Just for the record.

Thank you.

Thank you, Councillor.

Can we note that as well?

Thank you.

On to the minutes of the last meeting.

They have been circulated.

Can members who are present confirm these are true and accurate records?

Thank you.

The Committee query and action log.

I understand on one item from the previous meeting on strategic plan 2026 -30 adoption

on sharing more details, Council approach to tackle ASB and officers will circulate

offline.

Matthew, can I ask you to introduce the call -in?

Thank you.

Thank you, Chair.

Good evening, everyone.

As this is the first call -in after the elections, we've got new councillors and indeed a number

of new officers as well.

We thought it was worth just having a minute to run through even what a principle of what

a call -in is, just so everyone's on the same place, although I know the scrutiny committee

had training on this already.

So the idea of calling was introduced through the local government act that brought in the

cabinet executive model and the idea was that it was a way of backbenchers to sort of highlight

particular concerns they had on decisions taken by the executive.

So under our constitution any decision taken by the mayor individually or by cabinet or

cabinet sub committee or the mayor or cabinet or cabinet sub committee or any key decision

taken by an officer can be called in, but only that particular decision will come to

that nuance in a second.

The item when it's called in, if it's accepted by the monetary officer, is presented to the

OBEEN Recruiting Committee.

They will hear from the people who called in the decision and their reasons.

They will then hear from the executive, the lead member usually, potentially officers

as well as supporting the lead member, but it's for the lead member to kind of set out

why that decision was taken by the Mayor and cabinet in this case.

The Committee then discussed the item and they've got a number of different options.

They can decide to not accept the call -in and say that the decision could proceed.

They can refer a call -in decision back to whoever took the original for them to review

it or they can do somewhere in between maybe submit comments or thoughts about

it but not actually bring in accept the call in there's various nuances we have

two tonight so we're going to hear as they're both on the same subject we're

going to hear from each call in individually to begin with there be time

for questions we will then hear from the lead member and again every time

questions then there'll be the debate and then there'll be two votes because

there's two call ins there needs to be a specific vote on each of the call ins

And I would just particularly highlight tonight because of the nature of the item under discussion

that we are looking at the specific cabinet decisions.

So if you look in, cheque out the cabinet report as it was set out.

There were various delegations that were agreed by cabinet.

So it's that and only that that the committee can refer back to the mayor and cabinet to

look at.

That doesn't mean that stuff that featured in the cabinet report can't be referenced,

as obviously that was what cabinet used to determine whether it was appropriate to take

the decision that they did, but we're not here to re -litigate previous decisions, if

you like, in that process.

I've also got legal advice here, obviously you can step in if there's any confusion as

well.

And I suppose the last thing to say is by tradition here, anyone who has signed a call -in,

although they might take part in the discussion on the screening committee, they don't by

tradition, they don't vote on it because that could be seen as a conflict between them signing

the call -in and them determining it at the other end. So we have one member on the committee

So I think that's probably everything, isn't it, Chair?

Anything else?

Okay, I'll hand back over to you to manage it.

Thank you.

So before we start, I would like to thank calling members, lead members and committee

members and any public in the gallery for attending this meeting.

Before we go into details, can I remind members about the conduct in this session to act professionally

and not be political, keep an open mind throughout the discussion, not discuss matters that are

not part of the call -in, not discuss anything confidential or commercially sensitive, and

not discuss matters that are factually inaccurate.

Also regarding voting, co -optees of the committee are not able to vote but are welcome to engage

Can members be mindful of time as we have other agenda items to cover tonight?

I will be strict with timekeeping for the call in.

Please be clear and concise with your questions so all committee members can have an opportunity

to ask questions.

The committee is asked to consider the alternative course of action as set out in the call in

in reports. As there are two separate call -ins on the same item, for clarity I will quickly

set out the call -in requisition proposals. So call -in one, to reverse the provisional

decision and for the council to engage with residents about the concerns they have about

the impact on their homes, the loss of the community centre proposing an earlier scheme

for the site, the loss of a bridge which provides important access for some of the residents

and the detail of the impact on rights of life.

The proposed resolution is a removal of the section 203, the removal of the non -material

amendment status to PA2400203, i .e. the application is rejected and a new planning application

is to be made instead.

With cabinet deferring, the application of the section 203 requesting the planning officers

to provide full evidence of process with a suggestion that the non -material amendment

be reconsidered.

In terms of the calling process, we will hear from the calling members.

For calling number one, this will be Councillor David Edgar and you will have five minutes

to present.

We will then hear from calling number two and this will be Councillor Matt Churchhouse.

It will also have five minutes to present.

We will then have ten minutes for questions from OSE members.

We will then hear a response from Councillor Saeed Ahmed, cabinet member of Home Building

and Enhanced Council Homes and Neighbourhoods, who will have five minutes to respond.

We will also have David Joyce, Corporaduct of Housing and Regeneration, who will be supporting

Councillor Ahmed.

We will then have ten minutes for questions from OSE members.

I will then open up for discussions.

We will then vote on the matter and if necessary have a brief adjournment to draught any recommendation

wording before closing the meeting.

I guess we're ready to start.

Can I call upon Councillor David Edgar to present?

You have five minutes.

Thank you.

Thank you, Chair.

It's nice to be back at overview and scrutiny again after a gap of several years and I'll

try to remember all the rules that you set out as I go through what I have to say.

One thing I should say is that I live on Copenhagen Place just for clarity but I don't live in

sight of the proposed scheme and it wouldn't affect me myself.

One thing I would like to say is that members of committee will all know about the sort

of housing issues that people face.

a length of the housing register, over 30 ,000 applicants on it, which I think involves about

80 ,000 people.

So members of the committee know all about that.

It's something that is very present in their minds, but it's also something that residents

know about and are very aware of.

Many of the residents who would be affected by this scheme well know personally the circumstances

that mean that the council does need to get more council housing built.

But they would argue that there is a need to balance those needs, but also the needs

and rights of residents who are in existing properties.

There is some balance to be made between the two, and one can't allow the first absolute

desire to get more housing to override the second.

So residents are really concerned about this development.

They've met me twice, they've sent me many emails and messages.

There was a petition that went, has gone to the council, signed by more than 175 residents.

And the decision that they would like to be reversed is the appropriation of a land for

planning purposes and the use of section 203 of the Housing and Planning Act 2016 to override

their rights to take some action should they wish to in respect of this development.

The scheme includes the loss of light for many residents.

The appendix that gives full details of that is something that's been kept confidential,

so they don't have a full picture of what it represents, but they tell me, and I think

this is from one of the public reports, that the windows in Elan House, more than half

would suffer a sort of major adverse loss of light of 40 % or more.

So that's really quite significant.

It has quite an impact on people's lives, how they feel, what their electricity bills

and rest are.

What it also involves is the loss of a bridge, which currently gives people with limited

mobility or parents pushing, perhaps with children, access to Copenhagen Place.

And there was a very poignant, I thought, speech that had been prepared to give at the

Cabinet meeting.

It wasn't that they weren't able to give that speech, but it talked about the change that

that would mean for their lives, the way in which they, this particular individual, but

others affected as well, would really be stuck in their home.

It would just bring their world into a much smaller place, and I think that's a really

important thing.

What residents have also talked to me about and others is about the impact that has on

emergency escape from the buildings around, and they are concerned about that.

They also are unhappy with various aspects of the changes in scale of the development.

It's gone up and down in size.

One of the things that's, you know, the last thing it was to go up, but one of the things

that's been lost in all of it is the community centre that was to be in there.

That community space is something that they thought was quite an important part of what

was being proposed at one stage.

And so they're asking that the provisional decision is reversed and that the council

engages with residents about the concerns that they've got about the impact on their

homes, that loss of that community space, the loss of the bridge, which provides really

important access for a number of people who live there, and they also really want to be

able to talk to the council in more detail about what it means, I think over five buildings,

for the impact on rights of light.

And so they're asking members of this committee

to take the opportunity to call this in

and to give the mayor and his cabinet colleagues

to have a discussion, or to have officers

to have a discussion with residents

about what it would mean and about the concerns

that they have, and this is an opportunity

I really hope that the committee will take.

Thank you, Councillor.

I'm going to ask Councillor Madhouse to speak.

You have five minutes to present your call in.

Thank you.

Thank you, Chair, and thank you for the committee for welcoming me to speak today.

So I'm going there's a lot of technical language in the call in that I'm presenting.

So I'm going to break it down in layman's terms to make it as clear as possible for myself, everyone here and people who may be listening.

So the original application for the new development at Copenhagen Place was approved in February 2024.

In August 2024, a non -material or minor material amendment was made to the application after

it had already been approved.

And the reason that we've requested this call in today is because the purpose of a non -material,

or in this case it's now written in the documentation as a minor material amendment, is to make

minor changes to a planning application

that don't substantially affect the overall application

and wouldn't have had a bearing

on whether it was initially approved or not.

And our contention is that we are concerned

that actually the changes in the material amendments

are actually quite significant.

So the changes involved are the removal

of a community centre, the reduction

of outside community space and the substitution of two flats and a private space for the above.

That's a significant change to the internal and external arrangement of a building.

So looking at the guidance of what a non -material amendment or a minor material amendment in

principle should include, that would be things like slight positioning changes, minor changes

to windows, doors, not increases in height but reductions in height, slight changes to

the building materials used if you run into issues with the supplier where they can't

provide what was originally approved, slight changes to the internal layout.

Things that don't substantially change the original application.

Things that do not under general guidance fall under the title of a non -material, very minor material amendment are things like increase in size, altering of usage of the building, changing the access to the building and elements that impact the neighbours.

Now in this case the amendment substantially changes the usage of the building.

It removes a community space. That's a substantial amendment. I think that's pretty clear.

It removes a community garden. That's a change to usage. That is not a minor amendment.

That's not a non -material amendment. It changes the external layout.

That already doesn't fall under the category of a non -material amendment.

and it changes the impact on the neighbours because a community garden space is now a

private space, that changes the way that neighbours relate to the building.

So under all of those categories, that is not a minor amendment and our concern is that

when this application was first approved in February 2024, with this non -material amendment

coming down the line in August 2024, there's concern there that there might have been a

a little bit of a misuse of process,

that those amendments were not contained

in the original application.

Because actually, this application

is substantially different from what first was approved

in February 2024.

And I believe that, I think, you know,

it's pretty common sense to assume

that were residents in February 2024

aware of what the ultimate application

would actually look like,

there probably would have been a lot more objections.

There probably would have been greater scrutiny

on the decision because the application that went through

originally contained a community space.

It contained a community garden.

And I totally appreciate the residents.

You have one minute.

Residents had an issue with that,

but this is even more different.

So what we're asking for in this call -in

is that the cabinet suspends its section 203 decision

decision for now, to ensure that the Cabinet has full oversight of all of the documents

involved of both the original application and the ultimate application that was actually

approved in the end, because they are substantially different.

And we'd like the Cabinet to make sure that this committee makes a decision that enables

the Cabinet to actually have eyes on all of the documents and have eyes on all of that

process and to see how that application changed over time, to make sure that when their decision

is made, it's with all of the evidence in front of them.

Thank you very much.

I'll finish up there.

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Councillor.

Can I now invite our members for any questions for the calling members?

If I can ask you to be brief and to the point with your questions, and the same goes for

the members with your response. Thank you.

Councillor Campbell first. Thank you, Chair. I will be brief, but just

let you know it's not a question, it's rather a comment. So thank you for the member to

Bring this call in and I thank councillor Edgar for opening with recognising

the housing shortage in the borough

over 31 ,000 families are waiting for a reasonable house to leave and

This is a calling regarding a planning application for delivering

some housing

for our resident

If two extra houses means two families, two family size house with maybe eight children have better opportunity to go and live in a space where they can study and they can go to Oxford or UCL or wherever and they can come back here and sit in David Joyce's chair and serving his community.

So, in morally, I sit in at, number of years I'm sitting at planning committee.

We want to see every house building in a way so it doesn't affect any other resident.

But many times it outweighs the impact on neighbouring properties when they're giving a value of building houses and supporting.

I will be very brief, Chair.

I will be very clear.

So basically, I don't think in my perspective, although Matthew has cleared this is a council

policy to bring in Colleen, I don't think Colleen is a matter of awareness.

It is a planning decision, it is a planning matter.

The cabinet is not asking to give the planning permission, asking for the corporate director

to take the decision.

He has got planning officers, he has got multiple legal officers.

They will look into the planning decision and I don't think it's a matter of awareness

to discuss this call -in.

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Councillor Kebreha.

And now I'm going to come to the call -in officers.

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, David Edgar, for your presentation.

You already mentioned regarding the loss of lights.

and we know is in planning is loss of light is also is a material consideration.

My question to the officers, how do you believe the committee should balance the concern of

potentially affected neighbouring resident against the delivery of 18 council land homes

and including nine family size homes for household on the housing waiting list?

Just before we move, Matthew, can you come in and just kind of clarify what the call

in is on again?

Thank you.

Yeah, so just I've got a couple of thoughts if that's okay.

Stop me if you want to, Chair.

So yeah, just a reminder that the call in itself is about the decisions taken at Cabinet

rather than anything earlier in the process.

The stuff in the earlier process, the information in the Cabinet reports obviously what the

I would also say this is the opportunity to question the members submitting the call in,

so I would restrict yourselves to that at the moment and any questions to officers or

to any general thoughts I would say for the later process, if that was helpful.

Thank you Matthew. So just to be clear, only questions and then any comments when we have

our discussion, you can kind of raise those.

Over to, shall we go to Councillor Edgar first?

Do you want to respond to any of those now?

Yes, I do.

So, as Councillor Hussain said,

I certainly raise the fact that there is a real need

for social housing.

Interesting to look at how many have been built

over recent years.

There's a real need for social housing,

but that's understood by me, all of you, and by the residents.

So residents are people who, in some cases,

are probably overcrowded, would benefit from some of this.

But they passionately believe that there's

a balance to be had between the rights

and the experience of existing tenants and new housing.

And that housing of this scale in every place

is not the right answer.

And so the technical point is that they

want to get those decisions that were made about committee

reverse so that they are able to challenge if they wish to.

They retain a legal right to make some challenge to the scheme.

But I think what they fundamentally want to do is be able to talk to the Mayor, the cabinet member, about what the scheme would mean for them.

On the point about rights of the lights, I think I was stressed with an officer, but there is a real concern about that.

And because the report which gave most detail about rights of the lights was in a restricted appendix,

residents are feeling that they are being kept in the dark about exactly what it would mean for them.

and they're really interested to know that,

and they want there to be a reversal of the decision

which would allow there to be more discussion about that.

Thank you.

Councillor, would you like to respond?

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you for raising the issue

of the lack of housing in this borough.

It's a massive issue that I know all of us in this chamber

care really, really passionately about.

It's really important in a borough where planning

and housing is such a critical issue that residents and councillors are

passionate about, that the decision -making process is completely

transparent so that the council can stand on its own two feet and we can

justify our decision -making to residents and that residents know that things are

being done above board transparently and that things are being weighed up and

considered in a really fair way.

My call in relates specifically to the fact that

when a non -material amendment is made,

planning officers have discretion as to whether saying

that new amendment is significant enough

that it actually should be turned into a whole new

application that's reconsidered from the start,

or actually it's small enough that it's fine,

we just pop it through and it doesn't matter,

the application's already been approved.

In this case, this was a Tower Hamlets Council planning application.

The council should err on the side of caution of being as transparent as possible in the

decision -making process, particularly when it's contentious like housing is in this borough,

to make sure that residents have total faith in the decisions that are being made.

That is why in this case we feel that it was potentially not the right decision to have

been taken.

Councillor, sorry.

We have only got four more minutes and I have three more questions.

I will end it now.

I think my point came across.

Was yours answered, your question?

Who was it for?

David.

Do you want to repeat it again?

Can we be quick?

Thank you, Chair. David, you mentioned there's a loss of lights.

My question is how do you believe the committee should balance the concern of potentially affected neighbouring residents against the delivery of 18 council -run homes, including nine family -sized homes for households on the waiting list?

I, as I said, the need for council housing is sort of recognised by everybody and it

affects the people who live within the developments around or the houses that exist already but

there is a balance between the two and residents would like to have a longer and bigger conversation

which they won't be able to if the decisions are not reversed. They'd like to have a bigger

conversation with council staff about and the mayor about what this development mean for their lives and

on the loss of light

They know that it would have quite an impact on their life that they have and that really affects how people feel it affects their

bills and

but they don't have full information about that because

for whatever reasons

Much of it was put into a confidential appendix to report and they feel that there could be more disclosed about that

Thank you

30 seconds for next questions.

Sorry, Councillor Boudreau and then Councillor.

30 seconds.

Thank you, Chair.

Good evening, everyone.

Yes, my question to David Edgar.

David, you said there was some issues with bridges.

There was a bridge there.

Was there an alternative to that situation?

Has something been done to eradicate that problem?

Residents had problems.

they needed to cross the bridge.

So was there something in place after that was taken out?

Council, before you respond, do you want to ask your question, Councillor Oula?

I think I'll ask it to both of you, feel free.

The equally important voice is not being heard, Councillor Edgar.

Do you feel that the cabinet and particularly the mayor was wrong not to allow the residents who obviously feel very passionate

And not being heard as a council. We should be listening

We should be engaging and them not to be able to speak at the cabinet

Do you think that from the conversations you've had with the residents that was wrong and secondly just for that because I know some residents

Are watching I have to say councillor Matt when he gave those stats about the minor and a major

Watching some of the officers his face was quite something. It's worth replaying back

Thank you.

Councillor Edgar, would you like to respond and then you can follow?

Well, certainly the bridge that exists at the moment is, as I said, really important

for people and it affects those people who have more limited mobility or people who have

got children in buggies and the rest.

And so they think it has an impact and they're not aware that the new plans are something

that will provide a similar level of access and they're also worried about what happens

in an emergency to some of the existing blocks.

On the point about the cabinet, there is an opportunity at the beginning of a cabinet

meeting for members of the public to address the cabinet and three residents who have gone

along, they have prepared speeches which they've given to me and I think they handed it to

the Mayor over time.

But they did feel really disappointed that they didn't have an opportunity to actually

say their piece at that meeting.

I think they found it frustrating, they put a lot of thought into what they were going

to say, the arguments that they would like the Mayor to really publicly listen to at

at that time, so they certainly were disappointed.

Councillor, sorry, I've got to stop you there,

because we are against time.

Would you like to respond?

I'll very briefly respond.

I can't speak on the residents going to the cabinet directly,

but what I will say is that as a council,

we have an absolute duty to ensure

that our decision -making process

is as transparent as possible.

And I would say that when the applications

are being made by the council themselves,

our duty is, if anything, even higher

than the scrutiny that we would put on others.

We should be holding ourselves to the same,

if not higher level of scrutiny as a council.

I don't believe, this call -in does not believe,

that the planning officers used their discretion

appropriately with that application

when they decided that these substantial changes

could be written off as non -material

or minor material amendments.

The loss of community space in the community garden

is not a minor amendment.

So in terms of the cabinet,

I think it's really important that the cabinet has sight of that decision -making process and considers whether this application as it stands

should be having

Non -material or minor material amendment status. Thank you. In fact, it's substantially different enough that the cabinet should consider any application. Thank you, Councillor.

We have two more questions.

30 seconds each.

Councillor Sulloch and

Jair. Do you want to go first Jair?

Thank you, chair. Thank you, councillors. More or less you've kind of touched upon the

questions I want to initially ask, but then that boils down to the main question here

is, I think any one of you can answer this, around the impact of a new proposal, the time

scales and timeframes, considering the balance between the needs of local community of housing

and this potentially what you're asking for

is a more transparent and more entirely new proposal.

The time scope, the impact and what impact,

if any, have you made already if such thing was to occur.

Thank you.

Councillor Sillak.

Thank you, Chair.

Just very briefly, just you mentioned transparency

in regards to the planning decision.

But we, I mean, as far as the

child homeless council planning,

I believe that all the decisions are made,

it's transparent and it's quite clear.

So what's the, what is your concern,

like the key point that the planning authority wasn't transparent in the issue of this application

being allowed.

Councillor Edgar, would you like to respond to those two questions and then Councillor

Churchhouse?

I think the question for Mr Ahmed was really directed at me whereas the other question

and I think was directed more at the councillor at the other end of the table.

So on the timing, this clearly if the council would push on with that decision on I think

it's 9 November at the next camera meeting, if it was to sort of be reaffirmed there,

then there would be that loss of ability on the part of residents to raise in a particular

way their voice in a legal way.

They're not primarily concerned about a legal challenge, they're principally concerned about

time for a conversation and that

There's always a bit of a difficult trade -off, but I think that the time for a conversation about what's proposed

There would be some delay

But it needs to be balanced against really

Paying attention or not paying attention to what residents have to say about something that will really affect their lives

But you know just way into the future this building's gonna be there for a long time

It's built in its current form. It won't be going anywhere

and the residents will

will live the consequences and therefore to take a bit more time to get it right would

be a really good thing, I think.

Councillor, Mads, would you like to respond?

Thank you.

A great question about the time scales.

In terms of the suspend removal of the section 203, if the cabinet has all the documentation

and they're able to say that weighing everything up and considering all the circumstances,

In this case, we do still believe that actually

a new application would not need to be brought.

Then potentially this could be a relatively quick process.

I haven't given footfall to what it would take

if a new application was made.

Clearly that would be a substantial delay.

However, that's a sign that this decision making process

should have been done better in the first place.

So that we didn't even have to consider that

as a potential outcome or be here at this call in.

just in terms of the transparency,

if you buy a car and you've been told it's a yellow car

with four wheels and four doors, I'm not a car guy,

and then when you sign the paperwork and you all agree,

and then when the car arrives it's green,

it's got three wheels and a sunroof, it's a different car.

So saying that the decision was made transparently

when actually substantial changes to the application

were approved would snuck in after the application was approved. That's not

transparent. Residents are very alive to applications being made because

everybody knows what an application is. Residents aren't alive to non -material conditions being approved.

Because nobody knows what that is.

Thank you.

Can I now call upon Councillor Saeed Ahmad, cabinet member for home building

and enhanced council homes and neighbourhoods to respond. You'll have

five minutes and David Joyce, feel free to add to the members' comments.

Thank you.

Thank you, Chair.

Our response to both callings at the same time, if that's okay?

Would you want to do it separately?

Respond together and then we'll go to...

First of all, I would like to begin by recognising the concern raised by the neighbouring residents

and also any impact on the right to light or concerns about changes to the scheme are

understandably important to those affected.

And the council should continue to engage constructively with the residents.

So all of that I take on board.

However, it is quite important to understand and we should remain focused on the decision

that is actually before us today.

As Matthew mentioned before, and some of the members Councillor Hussain mentioned as well,

it's what we're dealing with right in front of us and what cabinet decision was taken.

So both callings in different ways are seeking to revisit the planning matters that has already

been considered through the statutory planning process.

I mean I can easily sit here and say that these points are outside the planning outside the onus remit here

and it shouldn't be discussed and let's look at this section 203 which was the cabinet paper, but I wouldn't to address

Councillor all this point that I wouldn't do that because we are a transparent council. We are listening the mayor wants to

Talk talk to residents. We are front -facing and there's nothing to shy away from that

So I would address that as well as the point that we are transparent in the process that

we are doing.

So the planning consent for Copenhagen Place has been granted.

The relevant planning decisions have been made.

And the period to challenge that has now passed.

The decision taken by cabinet was not a planning decision.

And that's again to address the residents watching here as well.

Not sure what the councillors have promised.

but this isn't about a planning decision.

This is a process that was to do with the section 203 powers

to facilitate the delivery of a scheme that has already been

through the planning consent.

The concerns surrounding the amendments to the scheme,

including the removal of the community space,

were considered through an appropriate planning process.

That is transparent.

Residents had the opportunities to comment through the consultation, the planning procedures, and everything the council has in place.

Those matters sit within the planning regime and are distinct from the decision before cabinet and for what we should be discussing today.

So I really don't want the O &S to be hijacked into a planning decision which has already passed.

Coming back to the cabinet paper, which is more importantly what we should be discussing here today,

the Section 203 is not about removing people's rights.

It is a statutory mechanism that allows developments delivering wider public benefit to proceed

while ensuring that affected parties retain the right to compensation where interference with the private lights are key.

It's giving people the right.

It's giving the council the right as well as giving the people right who are affected.

It isn't by any way taking anyone's rights away.

The key question for scrutiny is therefore not whether members agree with the planning decision that has already been taken.

The question is whether cabinet was justified in using their lawful powers to help deliver a consented development,

what Matthew Mannion has set out at the beginning.

And for me, that answer is yes.

We face significant housing need, as everyone here understands very well.

We have all been elected here to build homes and elevate the overcrowded pressures for

our residents.

And the scheme will deliver much -needed social rented homes for local people.

Pausing or delaying the section 203 process would not overturn the planning permission

already in place.

It wouldn't put that in stop.

That's already granted and it's already doing its course.

The funding has already been sourced, the contract has already been appointed, it's

going to go through its due course.

What it will simply do is create delays and uncertainty in delivering homes for residents,

what's already been approved.

As a council, we have a responsibility to ensure that proper processes are followed.

We also have responsibility to deliver the homes our residents desperately need.

And it is our responsibility to make sure that we don't put issues in place.

I will not take any time.

I want to ask David or Hannah to come in for a minute if there's anything further I've

missed.

Thank you, Jan.

Thanks, good evening members.

I think the lead member set it out very comprehensively, but what I would say is Hannah Dalglish is our director

who's responsible for the project. She is here

and

in fact since the cabinet meeting she has met with residents from the estate and we will

continue to engage with residents should the cabinet decision proceed and the development is implemented.

throughout the entire construction period we will continue to engage with residents

and address their concerns and work with them.

But I would like to just ask if Hannah has anything additional she wants to say.

I think the lead member has covered a lot of it.

I think very briefly, although it's outside of the remit of overviews greeting the committee

this evening as Councillor Saeed Ahmed set out, I did want to clarify that the substantive

amendments to the cope and place development, including the removal of the community facility

and the associated changes to the approved drawings were considered through the section

73 application rather than through the non -material amendment application. So the section 73 was

consulted on in the usual manner, including neighbour notification letters, site notices

and press advertisements, so interested parties would have had the same opportunity to comment

on these changes as they did in the original application.

Thank you.

Questions?

Yes.

Okay.

I'm going to take names down.

So I've got Councillor Mahmoud.

No, one second.

One second.

You're asking a question.

We will take the first question from Councillor Mahmoud and then over to Jahid.

Thank you.

My question to the committee member, the report notes that compensation may be payable and

further costs could arise through negotiation or tribunal proceedings.

What is the estimated financial exposure to the Council and how has value for money been

assessed?

Before you answer, shall we take Jaihids?

Jaihids, would you like to ask yours?

Thank you, chair.

Thank you, Councillor Sahid, thank you, David and officers.

My question in relation to the concerns regarding the loss of community centre and the bridge,

what considerations were made in the decision -making process and were there any mitigations proposed?

Thank you.

Yes.

Thank you, chair, and thanks for the question, members.

So I think first of all I want to say on the compensation element, I mean, the section

203, having that in place is very important.

It is a statutory process for us, for the council to follow.

In terms of what the benefit out of it is, the residents will make sure that they have a compensation policy in place that they can go and achieve and they will be entitled to.

In terms of the package and what's available, it's commercially sensitive, however it's all based on a formula so we can't really give this information away publicly.

But it's based on a formula and there is a proper due process in place which goes through the right sign -off within the Council's chain of command as we normally do with payments.

In terms of community space, I would say this is a planning question and I wouldn't want

to answer that immediately but I will ask Hannah to come in if you would like to.

I was just going to come in on the bridge aspect.

So obviously that was a decision taken as part of the planning process as well but we

do acknowledge that the bridge has been used by residents for a considerable period.

But it's just to note that access to all floors of Elland House will remain available by their

existing ground floor entrances and internal staircases.

Housing estate services have confirmed that no residents have identified mobility related

issues arising from the proposals and there are currently no residents registered on the

Council's vulnerable residents list for the block.

But nevertheless, we have listened to residents' concerns.

We attended the last TRA meeting and we're committed to updating the equalities impact

assessment to ensure that our current data is up to date and we've committed to not starting

the construction work until that is in place. It's also just worth noting in relation to

Elland House, the current fire risk assessment confirms that the existing means of escape

arrangements are suitable for the building's occupancy, but we are updating the fire strategy

and the FRA and that will also be in place prior to any construction work starting on

site too.

Thank you.

Next question, I've got Miranda and Rupert.

Councillor Rupert.

Thank you, Chair.

I wanted to understand a little bit more about the scale of discussions and genuine negotiations

that were had with residents, because I think it's really important that they feel that

there is a due process and that their concerns are genuinely being heard and considered.

Councillor Rupert, would you like to ask yours as well?

Thank you, Chair. I've got a sort of follow -up question for Councillor Ahmed because the

community space issue wasn't covered. I'd just like Councillor Ahmed to assess the importance

of community space in the borough in terms of the trade -off with housing, rather not

housing so much but the actual value of community space in the borough. I'd like to see how

values that. Thank you.

Thank you, I'll take the community space question first and then

Hannah coming on the scale of negotiation. I mean first and foremost

this paper here isn't to do with the community space. The paper here which was

considered in the cabinet is to do with the two or three lights. But I'm not going

to shy away from the question, I'll answer that as well. Community space is

very important to this administration and to the mayor. We push for community

spaces in most of our developments that comes through.

But at the same time, it needs to be weighed up in its merit.

Now that community space and the agreement wasn't done by myself, it was done through

a committee and through its process.

But the benefit of having community space is very key.

But at the same time, housing, it's a very much need for everyone within the entire Hamlet.

So I'm sure the process and the committees who were in the process, in the approval process

would have considered all of that, weighed it up, and in this instance decided that housing

was more important than community space. Every development is weighed up in its own merit

and I support that. That is democracy that we need to give in, we need to sort of have

the rights given to the committees and the panels who's making the decision.

But I think in this instance perhaps having family units there is more important than community

space but community space is important to us and the mayor and wherever we can we value

it as much as we can.

Thank you.

Can I just clarify that was the question in relation to residents impacted by Rights to

Light in terms of the engagement?

In terms of all the discussions that were brought up, I think what's important is the level of conversation that's actually being had with residents.

And it feels like perhaps there may have been some communication gaps, given that they're saying that they weren't in terms of the amendments that were made.

So I'd like to understand that a little bit better.

There were engagement events held prior to the submission of the planning application

and regular communications with residents through that process and obviously the statutory

planning process was followed for both the main application and the Section 73 application.

We have since the section 73 application was approved in January 2025,

engagement with residents, a lesson learned is we could have probably done more in that period between then and the summer,

so we began writing to residents again in the summer of 2026 with an update of, to update them that the construction work was due to commence.

So we're committed to engaging with residents throughout the construction period, attending

further TRA meetings and more regular communications.

There'll be a Meet the Builder event with the contractor and we're committed to that

engagement through the process.

In terms of the rights to light impact, we're committed to engaging any impacted party,

So we're asking any residents who think they are impacted to come and write to us and we

will engage with them.

Thank you.

We've got two more questions.

Councillor Oula and Councillor Ojou.

Yeah, sure.

Thank you, Chair.

Just to point out a couple of things.

First of all, paragraph 2 of the cabinet report, 2 .1,

report says the use of legislation to override the

rights of rights of neighbouring properties that

would be infringed on redevelopment of the land.

Secondly, planning permission was an officer decision.

Cabinet report was wrong to say it was a committee decision.

And observation, Chair, if I may, two things.

The council officer has said that at the moment there are

no issues of mobility, that's assuming that nobody in that block gets ill or needs transport

help.

And secondly, you know, I don't necessarily like being lectured by cabinet member on ONS

telling us what we can, we can't.

The whole point of ONS is to ask questions and to look at and deep dive scrutiny of the

council, cabinet decisions or the council.

So just for the record that, you know, it is not for the lead member to kind of assume

the role of the ONS committee.

Thank you.

Thank you, chair.

Just a quick one.

You mentioned the consultation was done.

Do you have any data that you can share with us?

I have heard it a few times, consultation.

Not just from you, from the call in councillors as well.

It would be nice to have some data that you have that you may share with us.

Any consultation you have done, data, how many whatsoever.

Thank you.

Can I ask the response to be very quick?

We've got another one more question.

Thank you.

Just in terms of the response to the bridge, obviously, as I stated before, we are going

to be updating our equalities impact assessment to ensure that we've got full data on current

needs and accessibility.

but I think it is worth noting that level access is only available for one of the floors

in Ellyn Touse at the moment. The rest of the block does not have level access and has

still been using the two stairways as part of that development. So we are, the removal

of the bridge only impacts one of the floors of the development, but we will be updating

our EQIA before construction work starts. In terms of the engagement that took place

I'm happy to provide that with you.

There were a number of, the engagement,

the pre -planning engagement happened during COVID.

So there are a number of virtual online

engagement sessions that took place.

And then the statutory planning consultation

also happened for both the main application

and the section 73.

Can I get a quick response, a very quick one?

Thank you.

Do you want to ask it again?

Do you want, David, would you like a Councillor to ask it again?

Yes, could you just reiterate the question?

If you look at the cabinet report to paragraph 2 .1

The report state says the use of legislation to use to override light rights of lights for neighbouring properties

And that would be infringed by redevelopment of the land

If you want to come back to me after pulling up the cabinet report, I'm happy I think we're probably best to

Because we haven't got a lot of time. I've got one more question from Jai

Jair, do you want to ask your question?

Can I just make a point?

I think that's just a statement fact written for section 203.

If it's just Google, that's what it says.

That's just fact.

I'm not sure what the outcome is going to be from that.

Is that your definition or your understanding, Councillor?

That's the definition.

You can look it up on Google.

Okay.

If it's a definition, can we just put it in writing?

I don't want back and forth here.

Yeah?

Is that fine?

Jair, would you like to ask your question?

Thank you chair very quickly. I just want to follow up on Councillor Said's

answer before

Appreciate that the focus on open space and the mayor's

Kind of he's under he's he's all for it

Well my question just as a you answered partially, but as a mitigation

Was it a question of okay?

We've got two we can fit in two more flats or two more families in here

and that said, there's no more community space,

or was there a consideration made,

all right, is there something else we could look at,

somewhere else we can look at,

that kind of mitigation done.

Thank you.

Thank you, Chair.

I think the question, again,

this is very much a planning question,

but obviously it was considered at that point,

although that would have been taken into consideration.

All I can say is,

Doro Hall's not far away,

it's just minutes walk from there,

So there isn't really a huge loss for that space, for that community in terms of community

space.

But yes, community space, green space, all of that is very important.

It remains at the top of our agenda.

But we are always open for our local areas, how we can support them in terms of funding,

programmes, events, so on and so forth.

Thank you, everybody.

We need to determine, so the next step is we need to determine as a committee whether

whether we wish to affirm the cabinet's decision or whether we wish to refer this matter for

reconsideration.

So can we please discuss your comments based on hearing the call in number one and number

two and the cabinet leads response.

So your view on whether we should confirm the cabinet decision or send back to cabinet

for reconsideration and outline what this is based on.

Shall I go around the room and...

So, Jahid, do you want to comment?

Very briefly, I have no actual objections to the cabinet's proposal, however I would

like some additional recommendations to like my fellow co -opty Miranda suggested is to

just to extend that consultation to the residents and get a true feeling and if it doesn't impact

the time scale that much why not thank you thank you Councillor Kebreha thank you chair

There are a number of planning policies that must be considered in planning.

This development fully complies with these policies.

Although there will be some loss of light, this is balanced by the significant number

of homes being provided for social.

So I am.

Thank you.

Miranda, sorry, apologies.

That's okay.

Thank you, Chair.

Fine.

I think communication is incredibly important and weighing up the public benefit and I hope

that there is enough consideration given to the fact that residents are impacted by this

as well and whilst it is important that we manage the needs of temporary accommodation

and long -term accommodation for the long waiting lists.

I also feel that residents need a due process to be established and this means that we need

to be very careful with how we proceed with this, especially given that we want to exercise

a section 203.

Thank you, Miranda.

Councillor Heller.

Good evening.

I don't have any questions or any...

So I support council cabinet decision.

That's all.

Okay.

Thank you.

So we're going to come to voting.

Any comments now?

Councillor Sillert.

Thank you, Chair.

As I've, I mean, I've been to planning committees previously and I've seen, because this is

The reason I ask a question of transparency and all the decisions are made within the

committee is I believe they are transparent.

And plus the cabinet decision, if there is anything to override, also benefits the residents.

It's not for benefiting the cabinet members.

It's in the view of benefiting the residency.

I believe that the cabinet has made the right decision

and I support the decision.

Thank you.

Thank you, Chair.

I really feel that this is a kind of canary in the coal mine

moment about the accelerated housing programme. I think the extra homes are something all

of us support, but I also think there is a huge value to community infrastructure in

the borough and lots of it is swept up in planning decisions around the accelerated

housing programme, that community infrastructure. So there are other places we can talk where

there are, there is negotiations in place, the canal club, all sorts of other places

that we're all aware of. I think my worry about this is that we have schemes that are

agreed with communities at initial planning which contain that infrastructure and then

that's taken away. And in a sense I think that's a really, it sets this cabinet decision

has allowed a very dangerous precedent to emerge which will make it harder for the team

running the Accelerated Housing Programme to negotiate with those people who use those

community spaces going forward and harden our position to the Accelerated Housing Programme

which in the main I think is great and I support but it creates a real worry that the planning

processes have been allowed to do this in the cabinet really should have stopped

it at that point in time. Thank you. Thank you councillor. Councillor Campbell.

Thank you chair. I've already made myself clear so we do support housing but at

the same time we don't want to see any houses leaving loss of daylight

sunlight we don't want to reduce the community spaces but at the same time again

Town Board Council has a very rigorous and transparent planning policy as a

matter of planning materials and I'm sure our officer have looked at this and must have

been outweighed the sunlight, daylight effect rather than benefiting the residents of Tower

Hamlets.

Hence I will be supporting the cabinet decision.

Thank you.

Thank you, Councillor.

I guess for me, thank you.

I've listened to both officers and the calling members.

I think as much as it's really important that we build homes, it's really important that

we communicate with our residents and I'm glad to hear that the commitment is there

and I continue to support the officers and ensure that going forward that commitment

remains.

We've all heard that we have thousands of people on the waiting list.

We do need these homes. We've heard from the lead member that Dora Dora Hall is

Literally, you know down the road. So

On that I will be supporting

The cabinet decision. Thank you

Good evening. Thank you chair

Yes after hearing from the call -in and the offices afterward and a lot of my colleagues have made some

Planning committee that deals with it then it goes to the cabinet afterward

I'm quite happy after one thing I'd like to highlight

Is the consultation you did did someone say the consultation was done during kovat am I right?

Okay

So do we have any data after what I'm quite happy with that, but it's nice to hear that the process is in place

I would like to see some data. It always helps when I do see some data

So, but yes, I will be supporting the cabinet on this after hearing from the call -ins and

the offices and the cabinet member.

Thank you.

Councillor O 'Loughlin.

Thank you, Chair.

I'm going to speak more on Green Colleagues' motion since I was a signature to the other.

I think my feelings are clear.

But before I do so, I want to use a phrase that Robin Hood phrased, you know, the, you

know, Robin from the poor to give to the rich.

Yes, there is a big huge waiting list. I think nobody in this room outside can deny that but you know at the expense of

Those who are already in a property though

Those who are already living that they have to now adjust their life adjust their lifestyle

Adjust their movement for someone else. I think it's not really what a borough that we should be doing

You know

Dare I say it, you know, I'm sure

colleagues who have independent mind around the table will hear and think, is this what we want to do?

Yes, there is a need for housing, yes, there is a need to give more, but if you're already in a property, do you need to suffer?

Do we lose our kind of movement and so forth? So I really want to echo that and I will be mindful of the fact that this has been watched by some residents

and I hope more will watch that the mayor's, I call it the aggressive housing bill programme.

Does that mean that more half people have to forgive, forget their way of life because

yes, there is a need to balance some affordable or some private developments that we've been

told about for the quality of life they've enjoyed for many years in this borough.

Yes, we can't house everybody.

This is a national crisis, but does that mean that what I've been used to where I live currently

has now have to be darkened or has to be built up or not the community centre that I was promised one time it will

No longer flourish. So I would just say, you know, this is this is not a

Direction that I feel very comfortable at. Thank you

Councillor

Do you have any comments?

Okay, no problem

Okay, I would like to propose

That we now vote on whether we are sending the decision back to cabinet for reconsideration

of confirming the original cabinet decision.

We will need to take two lots of votes as there are two call -ins here.

So for call -in number one, for members in favour of sending the decision back to cabinet for reconsideration, please raise your hand.

For members in favour of confirming the original cabinet decision, please raise your hand.

And now for call -in number two, for members in favour of sending the decision back to

for reconsideration, please raise your hand.

For members in favour of confirming the original cabinet decision,

please raise your hand.

Okay.

We voted to approve the decision.

Just some final comments from myself for officers.

Can I ask that the EQIA is provided to the committee?

In terms of the corporate director, we have heard from yourself and officers, and I'm

sure you will note some of the comments.

And you have obviously made a commitment in terms of communicating with residents throughout

the construction period.

Just want to kind of make a note of that.

Okay, I would like to thank the lead members and calling members for their time and participation

in this process.

This concludes the matter of the call -in on the Copenhagen play scheme.

Thank you.

Now moving on to our spotlight this evening.

Our first item this evening is spotlight on our Barra Commander with a focus on local

policing.

Thank you.

This spotlight session allows overview and scrutiny committee to hold the Borough Commander

to account on policing performance, public confidence, crime reduction and the effectiveness

of the police response to the issues that matter most to our residents.

With this in mind, can I now welcome our Chief Superintendent Brittany Clark, who is our

Borough Commander for Tower Hamlets and Hackney.

You'll have 10 minutes to provide us with a high -level overview.

I also note that we have our Councillor Kabir Ahmed, cabinet member for Safe Communities

and community cohesion and Kiran Bhagawal, Director of Public Protection and Integrated

Enforcement in Attendance.

So welcome to you both.

Borough Commander Clarke, you may start and I will let you know when you are nearing your

last minute.

Thank you.

Joe?

Sorry, Chair.

We also have Superintendent Oliver Richter.

Welcome.

Thank you.

Who is Superintendent for Neighbourhoods.

Thank you.

the

So we have provided some papers which I hope you have all found

helpful in advance of today's session. That does include the

new Met for London strategy which is the Commissioner's

strategy but focusing on front line policing and how the Met

has a commitment in terms of delivering for communities and

bit of a framework as to how we run local policing across the borough. As you

have quite helpfully pointed out I oversee both Hackney and Tower Hamlets

so some of our teams are split with responsibility across both boroughs. The

neighbourhoods of which Superintendent Richter leads is specifically Tower

Hamlets based so there is some differentiation depending on what crime

we're talking about as to whether the borough policing is specifically

designated just to Tower Hamlets or whether it's across the BCU. We did

provide the ASB strategy which is a fairly newly launched ASB strategy in to

how policing and obviously partners deal with and social behaviour together and

we also provided the Stop and Search Charter which is our sort of commitment

to Londoners which has been co -written with an extensive amount of co -production with

both young people and Londoners in relation to how we are going to deliver stop and search

and improve our performance and way in which we go about the actual procedure of a stop

and search.

Extensive performance data in the pack.

It might just be helpful if I just kind of give a bit of a broad overview of some of the key crime trends.

And these are obviously Tower Hamlet specific.

So from a year's perspective, year's data, we've got an overview of robbery,

where we have seen a really small increase of 1 .75 % in volume but we have improved quite

significantly what we call our positive outcome rate so that's the amount of offences that

we've either charged or solved with a suspect identified.

We do often with robbery see quite seasonal fluctuations often in the kind of early summer

months where we do see peaks and you'll notice that particularly on the most recent graph.

We have seen a slight increase again in burglary, 4 .4 % across the borough,

but with reductions more recently, so comparatively we're up compared to last year,

but we have seen sort of reductions from the back end of last year.

Just one thing of note with burglary is we are actually seeing quite a large chunk of burglary

is actually what we would call parcel theft, so people stealing items from people's either

portraits or communal areas, but because of the way legislation is worded that would also

actually be a burglary.

We see not just in town Hamlets but across central East BCU a disproportionate number

of burglaries are that kind of postal theft type of fence, which obviously from a detection

perspective is quite tricky and I think contributing factors include obviously

large numbers of flats, we also see bicycles in kind of common areas as one

of the sort of other sort of high high value items that are stolen through

burglaries again they are they are quite difficult to solve rather than kind of a

normal burglary in which we would sort of have somebody creeping around our

in the middle of the night.

We have seen, again, a small increase in theft person,

3 .3 % in volume.

Again, theft person is quite seasonal,

largely with big dips in the January, February type

part of the year with normally seasonal trends,

again, in that kind of warmer summer months.

We've seen a decrease of theft of motor vehicle by 1 .4%.

We have fairly low numbers, I mean, they're sort of less than 70 across a year.

Decreases in theft from motor vehicle of 3 .5%, again, really small numbers.

And a challenge that we're really facing quite significantly, again, across both Hackney

and Tower Hamlets, but obviously focusing on Tower Hamlets is we've seen an increase

in shoplifting by 34 .7%, which is really significant.

You'll see on the graph in relation to that that the trend has sort of continued upwards

from about February this year onwards.

It's plateaued slightly in the last month, but it is a significant increase even in comparison

to the rest of the MET.

And that is largely contributed by organisations such as Sainsbury's and Tesco's increasing

their reporting.

And we have got some really significant hotspots in places where we have some really high numbers

of offences, particularly within Sainsbury's on the borough.

We have had a decrease in drug offences by 12 .4%, with a quite significant positive outcome

rate of 87 .8%, obviously that's largely generated when we're doing proactive policing, so for

example through a stop and search and identifying drug offences, and the same thing with trafficking

of drugs where we've seen big decreases of 46 .7%.

We've had increases in hate crime which I think has been seen across London but obviously

we have seen fairly acute rises in certain parts of London.

And the increase there we've seen is 8 .3 % in volume.

But what we have seen is a big jump

in our positive outcomes.

So the number of people that we're identifying

and detecting for hate crime has gone up

from just over 7 % to just over 16%.

And that's higher than the Met wide average

in relation to dealing with that.

Violence with injury, we've seen a slight increase, 2 .1 % in volume.

Again, it is fairly stable if you balance it out.

But again, with seasonal cycles.

And I can talk a bit more about violence with injury

if anybody wants to raise that in a bit more detail later.

We've had a decrease in rape at 2 .2 %

and again really big improvements on the positive outcomes where we're at 16 .7 % in terms of

positive outcomes.

Domestic abuse, a slight increase at 2 .9%.

We are actually top of the met in terms of positive outcome rates, and we have been sustained

high performers in that respect for quite a while.

Obviously we've still got a lot of work to do in relation to that.

And then rape and serious sexual offences, we've seen an increase in 6 .7 % in volume,

but again a big increase in the positive outcome rate, up to 15 .5%.

So that's just an overview of the crime types.

There's a huge amount of detail within the pack around specific breakdown of crimes against wards.

Then I have some other data which I'm happy to take questions on.

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Borough Commander Clark, for your overview.

We'll now move on to members' questions.

Can I remind everybody to be brief and to the point with questions

so that we can have time for everyone to ask some.

If we do have time, we can ask.

Similarly, if I can ask you to be brief as well.

Thank you.

Jahid and Mirandai, do you want to start?

I'm the resident co -optee and I want to talk a little bit about the real impact and

progress that you're making and if there is any because it feels like the new normal now

where women and girls have to learn self defence and men and boys are fearful about being stabbed

And you can't walk into a Tesco or Sainsbury without witnessing supermarket robberies.

And we smell and we see substance abuse and phone snatching is routine and school children

are actively being drawn into criminality.

You sit in a position of power to change this and we need to know what progress you can

really make because the current baseline is shocking.

I mean just looking at Bethnal Green alone, VAWG stats for example, is 439 and that's

basically every day at least one reported case.

And so for us to have a thriving local economy and to attract investment and also for our

residents to feel safe which is fundamentally one of the most important things for everybody,

what significant improvements can you actually make?

I think we need to do

both in partnership

with, for example,

the shops,

in partnership with

our local authority

colleagues,

working with voluntary

sector.

We have a high level

of scrutiny

internally and externally

in relation to what we do.

Looking at

VORG,

We have a specific vogue strategy.

We have specific vogue strategy locally as well,

again, including partners in relation to that.

So we're really, really cognizant of what the issues are.

And I think being able to just ensure that our resources

are deployed really effectively into the right places.

And we know, particularly with shoplifting,

that there's real obvious venues and stores

that are hit so much harder than others.

and just ensuring that we are deploying our officers in both proactive ways and then making

sure that we've got the support in terms of the reactive investigations is I think probably

the best way that we can achieve it.

But we can't do it alone so we need to do that in partnership.

As I say, working with stores and making sure that they also have adequate protection for

their staff but also the people that are shopping in them is really important.

And shoplifting in itself is a contributing factor to violence against women and girls.

When we look at the high wards, sorry, wards with high levels of violence against women

and girls, you can see an overlay in relation to shoplifting because very often it will

be people targeting shops where there's either women workers or they're working alone because

they do it on Sunday for example. So there's lots of intertwining reasons but

I think the main thing is just ensuring that we know what's happening and where

and then targeting our resources accordingly and then working in

partnership to be able to try and help solve some of the broader issues. Thank

you. Does that answer your questions? Could I just add you mentioned targeted

intervention and black wall and canary wall but what would be the impact of

and other boroughs then in terms of crime in other areas?

Sorry, I don't think I said about Blackwall,

but we'd obviously take that approach everywhere.

So we have a monthly tasking meeting,

Superintendent Richter has borough -based ones,

so we just make sure that actually we prioritise

the resources to where the most amount of crime

and harm is happening so that we're not having resources

I suppose in areas that they're not needed,

because we really need to work smart with the resources that we've got.

Blackhall obviously being a hotspot, Canary Wharf is a hotspot,

you are making sure that we're deploying officers there

and also at the right times to target the right offences.

Thank you.

Jairid and Councillor Laquibre, have you got a question?

Can we take both together and if you don't mind responding, thank you.

Thank you, Chair.

My question is related to the drug traffic numbers and it's good to see that it's fallen significantly.

I've got two different numbers here so I'm just going to say it's a big number, so well done.

Is this because there's less drug dealing taking place or is there a problem with traffic and enforcement activity?

So where do we draw the line?

I mean, most, a lot of drug trafficking offences,

so that title encompasses a lot of, a variety of drug offences

that will include possession with intent to supply

and conspiracy to supply.

We have, you know, we have good proactive teams across the VCU.

You know, we've had some really good successes.

So I think, you know, whilst we also do want them to target

some of the harmful offences such as sexual predators and we were talking about violence

kits to women and girls, we want them to look at that as well. It's really difficult to

say one way or the other, so I think there has been a slight deviation in terms of we

don't just want to focus on drugs, I mean drugs obviously is very important and we know

that drugs is a big driver for serious violence and anti -social behaviour. So what I suppose

I'd be focusing on is actually the number of trafficking reports that we're actually

then solving and putting people in prison for, but also making sure that actually when

we do have our tasking that there is a good variety of harmful crime types that we're

targeting, not just drugs. So it's probably a little bit of both, but on the basis that

there are some really high harm crimes that I do need my proactive teams to deal with

rather than just drug trafficking.

Thank you.

Councillor Cabrillo.

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Lisa, for your presentation.

In your report, page 185 outlines the long -standing concern

about keeping children safe,

including the publication of the first children's study.

What are the key risks and trends you are seeing

around the child criminal exploitation in Tower Hamlets,

and how are the police working with the council to identify and safeguard vulnerable children

at the earliest days?

Okay, so we have a designated child exploitation team.

They work very, very closely and under the same umbrella as our missing persons hub,

so we know that obviously missing is a really clear symptom of criminal exploitation.

They then in turn work really, really closely with colleagues within social care.

So the new multi -agency child protection teams which will be coming out, sort of rolling out in the new year,

where they'll be also co -located very much within the local authority side of social care,

which will mean that we'll be able to pick up signs and symptoms that we might see through other indicators,

for example through schools or through health or you know through referrals into the mash

and actually as a collective team because we will then all be one team will mean that actually I

think will be more effective at picking up those sort of I suppose symptoms of exploitation.

We have broader intelligence products just to understand what you know we think exploitation

looks like from within Tower Hamlets but I think it's again it's a real multi -agency

approach, but definitely something that we are, you know, we have really, I think, really

healthy conversations within our children's safeguarding partnership boards, particularly

from the independence group, who I know is really, really interested in understanding

how we deal with child exploitation.

But I certainly think marrying up that team and the missing persons hub is really critical

to making sure that we're as effective as we can be.

and again our positive outcome rates on child exploitation are really good in

town Hamlets. Thank you. Councillor Helan. Thank you, Chair and thank you, officer, for your presentation.

My question is, it is good to see that targeted work is driving positive change

in knife crime. Can you please outline the short of work being done and how the police

work with health partners? So if I just come in, so I think knife crime,

yes, some really, really good work in terms of the reductions and it is very much a partnership

approach. So there's a couple of things that have historically had an impact on

our knife crime figures in Tower Hamlets. Number one, it's just over the back there,

we're very aware that having the Royal London Hospital means that we do have

people potentially coming into the borough that have been victims elsewhere

and so sometimes historically there has been an issue with the counting of those

crimes and we're really really aware to that that sometimes it can sort of very

much skew the data to appear that in particular the Whitechapel Ward has a

bigger area and an issue with knife crime. I think some really strong

initiatives that we've been working on so we've had in policing our operation

names change quite frequently but some of you may have been aware of things

we've launched in the past called Martello. We've then had a clear hold

build project but very much at the current time our focus is something we're

calling Op Porous, which is something we're working very close in terms of the community

safety partnership in Tower Hamlets alongside the Home Office.

And that is to look at some key areas in London that do have a knife crime issue and White

Chapel from the data that we've presented was one of those that was chosen for this

project.

So we're actually quite excited to see that becoming a positive.

So it A, gives us some significant resource that we can put into that.

So that's not just from a policing perspective in terms of putting out officers, high visibility

patrols, etc.

We're very conscious that to truly tackle knife crime you need to essentially problem

solve and that's why in neighbourhood policing everything now we are very much trying to

take a joint problem solving approach with the, and you know, Tallahamlet's local authority

puts in a lot of finance and a lot of resource into things such as the drug squad, the FIOs,

CCTV, there's been huge investments in that which have absolutely had huge results for

us in terms of what we can achieve as a partnership.

But OpPora specifically, very keen to design out crime, to design out the knife crime issue,

because some of the issues that we've already touched upon in terms of the retail crime,

whether a knife is actually presented or not, that will count and we're very aware that

you know, if you're the victim of that, if somebody is coming to you, you don't have

time in that moment, whether it's a legitimate knife or it isn't, if it's intimated, that

absolutely is something that we can't have happening.

So some great works ongoing, but we're very, very clear, you know, policing will not solve

this alone.

A lot of proactivity, absolutely, from the units, and that isn't just with neighbour

policing, that's from our detective colleagues in the CID.

We don't just patrol in uniform, we'll have plain clothes.

Very often there'll be operations that may not be publicly advertised, but that are working in the background.

But yeah, through the CSP, some really, really good results and some operations going forward to hopefully reinforce that in the future.

Thank you. Can I ask you to turn your microphone off? Thank you.

Councillor Saluk, your question please.

Thank you, thank you chair.

I've got two, three short questions, but I'll just put them together.

In terms of fields, how effective do you think the fields are,

working with the local police and what's the benefit you are getting or the residents are getting.

Just with a short answer.

The next thing is, I also want to note how you are utilising the fields into your group.

And also there is a really massive problem with schools and drugs.

You've got so many, I mean I live in the area for nearly all my life.

And I noticed or I know for a reason that the kids are there,

as soon as they come out from the school, they are trying,

you know, someone else is waiting outside, trying to involve them in the drug.

So how closely you are working with the school, and what's the outcome?

The last one is the CCTV. How effective the CCTV, I mean, what benefits you are getting

from the CCTV that have been installed, especially the new ones throughout our lives.

I will start with the

If I just start, I probably

work most closely with the

FIOs in terms of our

neighbourhood officers and

we also have our

Talahamet task force which

is a funded team that the

local authority pays the

amount of money.

We currently have in that

team four sergeants and 22

police constables.

That's a big team in terms

of a funded operation.

How it works day to day,

Predominantly we have a fortnightly, what we call a precision crime fighters meeting,

and that's both sides, so that's all of the leadership team from the police side

in neighbourhoods and the Theos. And we get together, we share the intelligence

and very much our taskings are driven by that and they are joint taskings. So we

will look at whether it's a crime problem in a certain area, whether it's

anti -social behaviour, whether it's drug dealing. We will look at the problem, we

will try and then work out right who are the best teams to deal with this. Very

often that will be joint patrols and that will be police working hand in

glove with the Theos. I think it's great because yes our roles are so

vastly different in terms of from a pure powers perspective and also operationally

priorities can be different but ultimately we are working to that same

priority. So the precision crime fighters meeting in many boroughs across London

and that's only happening every month.

We're having that every fortnight in Tower Hamlets

because we really see the benefits of it.

And we are trying to grow and grow that relationship

more and more.

So more joint operations that we'll do.

And that's both with that Tower Hamlets Task Force,

which is absolutely determined to work together with drugs

and it'll come onto the sort of CCTV

and I'll go into how absolutely vital that's been.

but your local ward teams as well.

Also including that meet.

Yes, so, come to that.

So, that's in terms of the Theos,

I personally absolutely see the value of them.

I think we have a relationship that's certainly

over the kind of 18 months that I've been in post

has built and we continue to work together.

A lot of the work on the estates

that we really kind of drive together.

So, hugely valuable from a police perspective

and I'd hope that they would kind of see

that that relationship is built over time. Very quickly on CCTV the investment that

Tamar Hamlets has made I think puts a lot of other boroughs to shame from a

police perspective. I've at my level constant communication with people in

that CCTV control room. I know it's an operational level that's mirrored and we

are very keen to integrate them in as much of our police activity as possible

and a lot of the operations, a lot of the great work, it will very much be a case of

the CCV control room, even guiding our officers to where outstanding suspects are, flagging

up.

So again, I think that's working very, very well.

On schools, I think we acknowledge that there's an issue in terms of lots of, well, very conscious,

not just drug dealing, but any sort of violence that's not just happening within a school,

but outside in that kind of corridor I suppose both pre and post schools starting and ending.

So we still have children and young person officers, officers that are dedicated to that

school liaison's piece.

We also in Tower Hamlets have a sergeant that oversees that network.

So we work very very closely together, we're integrated.

I think policing is trying to move away from having a permanent presence within a school.

I think if you look at a lot of the academic research around this topic, we're very often

not the right people to be going in, to be delivering in school premises unless we absolutely

have to.

So we're very conscious as well that unfortunately a lot of our young people are often finding

themselves involved in, as we've touched on before, either exploitation or other serious

criminality but we are very much trying to work in a way that reduces that

further harm to them so it's almost taking as much police presence and

dealing with the issues away from the school premises as possible at the same

time appreciating there is that vulnerability but again through the CSP

and through kind of meetings that we've both been on through kind of academic

research that policing is involved with I think that's an area that's rapidly

I think that's a really important thing.

I understand there is a lack of resource, but schools do really need that support.

A very recent incident at school where I had some communication with teachers, it was kind

of highlighted it is no longer there.

So just to kind of note that.

Would you like to come in, Councillor and Kieran, would you like to come in on Theos?

Thank you.

Thank you, Chair.

Just to say that we've increased the number of FIOs to over 60 FIOs now.

And that's not to work in silo operations.

That's to collectively work alongside police officers, gathering intelligence, as well

as having sort of local authority by law enforcement powers.

It's really important for us to have that uniform patrol on the streets.

but jointly working with the police.

So just on August the 19th, we had another one

of the days of action where we have a multi -agency approach

from different council departments

along with the police where we go out in order

to not only target crime, but also support vulnerable people

into getting access to services, which includes

homeless people as well.

Just as sort of highlights, using our CCTV system, within the last year there's been 106 proactive results where we've shared intelligence with the police.

Likewise we regularly do share intelligence with the police and the police share intelligence with us as well which support in prosecutions that the council can take against individuals.

And that includes things such as cuckooing, which is a problem and there's a special

Marrick set up specifically to address the issue of cuckooing where vulnerable individuals

have their homes taken over.

In addition to that, there's been 98 ASB warnings which our council teams have proactively worked

in coordination with the police.

I think one of the most important areas is to understand and acknowledge is that the

police are one of our statutory core partners.

And the council for years and beyond do work very proactively with the police.

In terms of going forward from a council perspective, and Kieran can go into further details of

this, we're looking at rolling out the estate safety plan, which is now to work with the

RSLs.

We're quite limited in terms of the work we can do.

So there are particular ASB services

that council tenants get, that other tenants

who are part of RSLs may have different contracts

with different sort of security firms

in order to support them.

What we wanna do is unify that

and look at a state safety plan.

So we're already in early talks with some housing providers

and we're looking to roll this out

across the whole of Tower Hamlets with RSLs that want to work with us as a council so

that we could have a more effective aligned approach to tackling ASB and various types

of crime.

Again, I think it's really important that we highlight one thing that both the police

force in Tower Hamlets as well as this council don't do is shy away from reporting and we're

really proactive in trying to get residents to report any forms of crime and ASB.

And just a reminder that if it is a serious crime to dial 999 -101 to make reports, intelligence

reports, you can call the Council's ASB line.

If you want to do anonymous reporting, you can call Crime Stoppers and report things

anonymously.

But unless these reports come in, it's difficult for us to set tasking.

I will hand over to Kieran to briefly speak about the estate safety plan.

Thank you.

Please be very brief.

Sure.

So I think just touching on the estate safety plan, the principle around that is we obviously

have our council estates and then we have estates that are managed by registered social

landlords.

I think we come from a place of, regardless of your tenure, crime and community safety

matters and impacts all residents in the borough.

So it's about developing a sort of a state safety plan in partnership with our registered social landlords so that we have sort of an equal

Sort of footing regardless of what you know what your tenure is, you know that you get the service that you need

But also the council sort of facilitating and ensuring that we've got the right resources going in from the partners as well

So we work closely with the police and the safe and neighbourhood teams and through that plan

We're able to work with the police to ensure that we also parachute into particular estates as well

So that works sort of underway.

It's just making sure that we are sort of taking note of some of the crime and ASB patterns

and problems and issues facing particular estates.

Our intelligence team are working up products for each of the estates.

We've done quite a few of them and then we're obviously sharing that with registered social

landlords to say look, here's your housing estate and here's some of the primary crime

types that you've got, even down to blocks, et cetera, and we're sort of bringing in the

police in that conversation to strengthen the partnership.

Thank you.

Councillor?

Thank you, Chair.

Thanks for the presentation.

It's really encouraging to hear both from Councillor Ahmed and yourselves about all

the good things that are going on.

I've got concern about resources and extractions.

In my ward by West, the sergeant was extracted and it's led to quite a difficult situation

in terms of moving things forward on ward panels.

And I guess it sort of raises a concern to me

that I'm sure like much of the public sector,

you're under huge resource constraint.

So I've got an issue about whether, you know,

how significant extractions are.

And I guess the second part of my question is,

how much of your, are you measuring

how much of your resource in terms of officer time

is taken up with stop and search?

and whether you actually think can you support the idea that that's actually a cost effective

intervention given that most of what you're finding are low level drug offences and I

would say most people here are more concerned about crimes against a person so serious sexual

violence, knife crime, all of those other things. Thank you.

Thank you. If I may just answer your question in reverse because I think it might be quicker.

So the short answer is no, we don't measure the specific time investment of individual

officers on stop and search.

I think we know roughly a stop and search might take between five and 15 minutes, dependent

on a variety of factors, and we know the number of stop and searches that we do each year.

I think for a tactic that requires only reasonable suspicion, and we achieve about 40 % of the

in terms of finding an object that we are looking for,

when I think we have a really low level, and suspicion is the lowest level,

I think, rather than reasonable belief, I think that's actually quite a big proportion.

I know stop and search in itself is a divided tactic,

I know it can be politicised and it's a motive for people for lots of variety of reasons,

But we are consistently told that, you know, certainly the people of Tower Hamlets do want

us to prioritise drugs and I hear from councillors who are worried about people taking drugs

and it being a blight on communities, but also I am very much of the opinion that I

want my officers certainly to stop and search more for, more so than they currently do for

things like weapons.

So that is a work in progress and we have certainly seen a shift over the last two years

where we are stopping and searching more people for weapons than we were and we

are which is my aim because I think you know we know that that you know we don't

underestimate the impact that stop and search has on an individual when we when

we do that I know it's you know I know it's intrusive and we need to do it

right and that's why I think the stop and search charter hopefully is you know

some broader context as to how we're trying to improve on that and your first

question around obstructions. We are seeing a reduction in obstructions

because we're trying to change the way that we approach aid, so when you know

when we're policing sort of protests and generally things in central London and I

think probably in recent weeks, so there won't be any published data on it yet,

but in recent weeks we are definitely feeling a reduction in the obstructions

and the way we're doing that is by using force mobilisation. So if public order

commanders can have confidence that any given time they can sort of, you know, for

want of a better word, press a button and some public order resources appear

because they've been mobilised from the boroughs and they will be obstructed at

that point but that means that they don't need to just be blanket warned and

sitting around for, you know, hours, days on end for something that they may never

be needed for, they're actually back in their community. So we are seeing that as

a big impact in terms, and it's a big cultural shift in sort of public order policing.

So I'm hopeful that that will impact particularly the neighbourhood teams where they aren't

obstructed either on aid or to backfill the response teams for example and we can just

have better, you know, increased amount of time that they're on their wards and I think

that our obstruction data will show that.

So I'm hopeful that that will be an improvement for you, certainly in Bowes.

Thank you, Borough Commander.

Before I move on to the next set of questions, I wanted to ask members if you agree to extending

the meeting to another one hour.

So we'll be finishing at 9 .30 so we can focus on the spotlight for Be Well.

Is everyone fine?

Definitely.

Thank you.

I'm going to come back around.

I haven't missed you.

I'm going around now.

Thank you, Mr Chair.

I think residents watching at home,

so the Brockham

under and superintendent, I think

it's probably the last time we

talked about housing and community

safety is probably the most important

issue for irrespective of whatever

your demographic, your age, your sort of

thing is. So, but I want to start off by thanking my co -optic colleague there,

Mirinda, who as a resident painted a very, a very kind of a Halloween's approaching

but a very scary picture of Tower Hamlets as a resident. Twenty years ago when I

left a police authority I thought this borough was one of the most unique in

terms of the partnership. We were the first to roll out S &T's, you know, were

the first to roll out Theo's. Listening to this and dare I say thanks to the

for sending me the papers up front, that three warning signs was like, God, having done two

plus decades of community safety and being a friend of the police and a very supportive

member of the council, I do really worry, you know, all the investment, and I'm not

making it political, I'm saying as a council we put into partnership. I'm not in favour

of you spending your time in ACNI, I wanted you all for ourselves in Tahehamnuz. I really

feel that, you know, key hotspots, whether it be 20 years ago, Rupert Murdoch, the Sun

workers coming out of Shadwell with their fancy mobile phones getting snatched, 20 years

later it seems like we're still in the same hotspot in Shadwell. Mylin, young students

coming out of, going to Queen Mary, you know, as a board member then, getting, you know,

the governor's telling me or the lecturer's telling me that today students don't feel

safe. Mylin's still on the radar. And dare I say it, where, whether it be a loved one

or you've come to see this wonderful town hall,

you come out the station at the Elizabeth line

and your phone's getting snatched.

What is it going wrong?

The visibility, the partnership, the CCTV,

people watching and listening at home,

I'm sure will agree with me that given all the investment,

given all the partnership, given all the fancy photos

that we see paraded both in terms of partnership photos,

why is our Tower Hamlet still ranked one of the most ill

in terms of high -performing crime -bound,

in London.

Offices, over to you.

I think what you sort of depicted there is really typical in general I think of crime

patterns where we see big overlays between places like train stations or I suppose shopping

areas for example because there's lots of people and therefore we tend to end up with

a hot spot for crime.

Now whether that's partly because of the environment, people come out of tube stations, they take

their phones out of their bags, out of their pockets and they have their phone in their

hands and it presents a perfect opportunity for people to snatch phones and I think the

reasons and motivations for that will be many and that's why I think, and I reiterate the

point that I said I suppose in response to the co -opted members that that's why we need

to work in partnership. Police can't just arrest their way out of crime. We need to

look at environmental factors. We need to look at reasons that motivate offenders to

commit crime, for example, addiction problems. We need to work out how we can make the environment

easier for us to then actually identify who the offenders are, for example, through CCTV,

through high visibility patrols. I think generally speaking, when we look at really serious harmful

crime. We are generally seeing reductions and I know Tower Hamlets is obviously a, you

know, there's a lot of people that live in Tower Hamlets, there's a lot of people that

visit Tower Hamlets and I think where we are seeing those particular pinch points is where

there are a lot of people, as I say, people coming out of a train station and I think

that's where we need to work really hard and we need to put our resources there. But I

I think it isn't just a policing problem to solve alone,

which is why we need to continue to work in partnership

to ensure that we're understanding what the drivers are,

but also the factors that are kind of enabling crime

to crime to happen.

Chair, just to follow up, thank you for that.

I was hoping for more, but I will ask for one

for both from the officers, our council officer

and the lead member.

The key issue, drugs has been epidemic in town,

But a new epidemic that we are seeing is about the Knox related issue.

And from a policing point of view, those who are intoxicated through Knox, the laughing gas,

what measures and what things are you doing?

And secondly, if we know the hotspots, and the lead member mentioned 60 Theos,

I'm quite proud of those people. They do a great job.

But why are we not seeing them more on visible patrol than instead of on those lovely electric driven cars

that I see them driving around the borough?

So in relation to the FIOs, but with the FIOs, I just want to say that Tower Hamlets is probably

the only place in this country that has created a Knox Diversionary programme that we jointly

partnered up both with the police, Queen Mary University and the Royal London Hospital.

It's the only place in the country that educates young people with the dangers around knocks

And I think we are currently running various programmes around that and we hope to continue doing that

so that that's the first thing around knocks, but

Council, I think it's really important we highlight. Okay knocks is a emerging phenomena

however

If you want to look at the serious risks and dangers,

NOX is labelled as Class C, I believe.

We've got a pandemic, epidemic of Class A drugs, heroin, crack cocaine, IV using.

These are very hardened drugs that operate within Tower Hamlets.

And it's important we educate the young people,

because it's nox is predominantly around below sort of 20s if not under 25s.

However when you're looking at the impact and effects of class -a drugs like

heroin and crack that operate within Tower Hamlets that's where the bulk end

of money goes both in terms of enforcement as well as in terms of

treatment provisions provided. I also want to highlight that a lot of the ASP

related issues aren't necessarily from knocks per se. So when you're looking at people who

are backing up on staircases with needles and syringes and the paraphernalia left within

staircases and sort of premises along streets and so on and so forth, they pose further

health risks as well through transmission of BBVs and so on and so forth. And within

that cohort. It would be great if we could achieve micro -elimination through the BBV

testing and so on and so forth and treatment. But again, it's multifaceted and just to label

one emerging form of drugs I think is not appropriate. Along with the police, the council

also has responsibilities around child protection as well as public health and many other areas.

So we work holistically with all directorates through both the adult safeguarding board

as well as the young people safeguarding board as well.

In relation to the FIOs, again reporting is essential.

FIOs will be tasked to areas where reports come in and that's why I highlighted the element

of reporting, because unless both the police and the council are aware of those prolific

locations, you know, we can't operate and deploy resources there.

So the more reporting people do, the more we can deploy resources to those areas.

Thank you.

Councillor Monchong.

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to the Baroque commander and the officers.

You mentioned stop and search earlier.

So my question is, obviously it arose, there are some positive outcomes.

Quarter 1, 2026 -27. The dashboard lacks a breakdown by ethnicity, age and ward.

It would be nice to get those figures. It always helps.

So we can highlight where the crimes are and it's nice to know those figures if you could.

And if I may, I might not get a chance to ask this question.

As the Baroque commander, what are your three priorities for the year ahead?

Thank you.

We definitely do have data on ethnicity.

I don't, in order to then break it down into ethnicity then by ward, I have that data internally,

but I've kept this data pack to what is externally available.

It might be that it can be done with some analysis from the London data store.

I don't think we've got that specifically in the pack.

But that is definitely something I can follow up with you in writing after,

if that's helpful, if that is something you're interested in.

I mean, in terms of my top three priorities, you know, we talk very much about, you know,

threat, risk and harm.

And I think, you know, there's lots of different ways in which we can group priorities.

So I want to kind of say this in the broadest of ways, but, you know, violence and violence

against women and girls is absolutely a priority.

And that would obviously encompass weapons and weapon -enabled crime.

I also want to focus particularly, and this is from my perspective, around achieving and

increasing the number of positive outcomes that we get for all crime.

So making sure that we are actually, where we are having crime reported to us, that we

absolutely are solving those crimes by identifying offenders and you know

having relevant judicial outcomes. And then I just think more broadly we have

an acute problem as I say with shoplifting and I want to be able

to see a sustained reduction in relation to that because that is our biggest I

I think our biggest threat at the moment,

and that does impact every single,

any person that goes into a shop,

people that work in a shop,

and it's indiscriminate, and it can happen to anyone.

We are getting quite a lot of serious,

violent shoplifting, which we would determine

as business robbery, but the big increases

in shoplifting for me are really concerning.

So that'd be my three kind of priorities.

If that could be noted for the data to be provided.

Thank you.

Thank you, Commander.

Thank you.

Before I move on to the best, I'm going to ask my quick question.

So the charter is built around rebuilding trust and confidence.

Two years on, what measurable difference has it made in Tower Hamlets and what difference,

evidence can you show residents that stop and search is now being carried out more fairly

and effectively than before?

Thank you.

I mean I think the data only shows one picture.

We have the public attitude survey which is in fairness to it a fairly small cohort of

people who might not themselves necessarily have been subject to stop and search.

So one of the things that we actually are doing within Tower Hamlets specifically, and

it will be kind of rolled out more broadly across the Met is community

scrutiny. So we ensure that there's a random selection of stop and searches

that are scrutinised by community members who are resident and you know

active kind of community members within Tower Hamlets and we get some really

rich feedback specifically in relation to those encounters which also very

often helps us identify either broader themes, training needs, trends and an opportunity

for officers to actually also speak to the scrutineers themselves.

I think being able to demonstrate this level of transparency around our, you know, very

keen to kind of emphasise the fact that we know that this is a very intrusive tactic,

but we want to be able to demonstrate that we are open to scrutiny on that, we want to

and we want to improve, and actually there'll be

broader kind of governance around it as well,

with like a sort of a pan London chair of chairs

and the deputy commissioner kind of being involved in that.

So I think in relation to the actual figures,

I mean obviously a lot of it, what we do is track it

on the performance, so actually whether the suspicion

raised and what the item that they were looking for

was ever actually found or achieved,

and then kind of overlaying that with some of the really

rich data that we're getting in terms of the feedback

from scrutiny in relation to stop and search.

Thank you, good to hear.

Finally, Councillor.

Thank you, Chair. Thank you, lead member and officer.

And a special thanks to our borough commander and the team member for coming here.

The resident can ask, we truly appreciate the work you do day and night to keep us safe.

I just want to understand, government took a recent decision

to release some of the offenders early. Although I want to see them rehabilitated

they back into the society, they do well in their life, but this is not my

question, this is the question from our resident. Residents are really concerned

although our lot of violence and crimes are risen by recently. We know the

resources police have very limited. Do you have a data, the offenders are coming back

into Tower Hamlets, do you have an active monitoring system and are you prepared for

that? Can you assure us here that people are watching on live cast today, residents of

Tower Hamlets, you are taking every measure to keep them safe. And another question, this

multicultural people lives in harmony.

Our recent consultation says over 90 % of people

get on with each other.

And it's a hub for ethnic minority communities as well.

And there is a nationwide trend of hate crime.

I can see our Islamophobia offences

rose from 11 % to 24 % in the quarter, which

is a big number of rights.

It's not just Islam of any other hate crime.

Do you have an active programme to find the root cause

and preventing those hate crimes?

And do you have the data?

Maybe a lot of people I know that don't register

or that don't call police.

Is there any way you can tell people,

make sure we register, you encourage them,

and what preventive measure

and active measure you are taking

to reduce those measures.

Thank you.

So just in relation to your first question,

so I mean I can totally understand why it is a concern

for people that, you know, offenders are being released early.

I think again the reasons for that are quite well documented

and largely see financially and resource based.

I think the key thing for us is understanding,

who is being released back into Tower Hamlets, which means that we need to be closely linked

up with probation, which they are key partners within our community safety partnership.

And understanding actually when offenders are reoffending, or if we identify that they

are reoffending, that we are also flagging this up to the justice system to ensure that

actually, it's really clear that they are not the type of offender that's actually

maybe now ready for an early release.

So at the moment we don't have any data.

I know it's really, really in its infancy and I know certainly from a police perspective

the Commissioner's been really clear to the justice system that we want to ensure

that actually the demand isn't then basically falling back onto policing because there'll

It is a higher increase of offending but it is

definitely something that we are working

closely with probation with to ensure that

when an offender is released early we are

aware of that.

That we can deploy our offender management

teams and work closely within the colleagues

across the CSP.

But then actually we are escalating the risk

robustly.

When an offender does reoffend and clearly

aren't suitable for early release.

I think in relation to your second question which was around hate crime.

So I think I mean in terms of programmes obviously we you know we don't commission services.

I know I mean I don't know whether colleagues across the table would want to kind of commit

on any of that.

We you know we do know that Islamophobia has seen a significant increase and you know as

as I, you know, it's really sad that we're in this position. What I would always say

to somebody though is to encourage them to report it. I want to see that people have

trust and confidence in reporting hate crime to the police to show that actually we are

really taking it seriously. As I say, we've really improved our performance on hate crime.

We've done a lot better in terms of tracking it and identifying it and dealing with the

cases swiftly and making sure that they sit in the right investigative teams and that

they've got trained detectives looking at the crimes.

But in terms of programmes, we do engage and liaise with local community groups to understand

the community sentiment around that and also how we can give advice on terms of crime prevention

but in terms of specific services that obviously policing don't commission any services.

so I don't know if there's colleagues that want to answer.

Can we be very brief?

I'm gonna give you 30 seconds.

No problem, thank you, Chair.

I mean, I'll just jump in on the hate crime area.

I think Tower Hamlets being a place

of rich diversity, heritage, a place of migration,

the political makeup, there are multiple reasons

associated with Tower Hamlets, having a rich centre,

as well as poverty, makes us a target.

Makes us a target both from certain political aspects,

right wing agitators, which we all share that opinion,

I think, equally, all elected members.

And I think to all of our bones,

we defend against that hate that comes here.

And on a regular basis, we see documentaries,

we see individuals come in to Tower Hamlets

trying to agitate us and trying to get others wound up about Tower Hamlets, calling it no -go

zones and so on and so forth and all of that.

And I think as a Council we play a very positive role on that.

We may bicker on whatever it is.

However, when it comes to defending Tower Hamlets and what Tower Hamlets means to us,

I think we equally share that opinion and I think...

Thank you, Councillor.

Thank you.

Can I use this opportunity to thank our borough commander for her attendance and superintendent

and your contribution to this agenda item this evening.

Whilst our committee recognises the progress highlighted this evening and in the main that

our police do a good job under difficult circumstances, I believe it's fair to say that our members

remain concerned by rising demand, increasing robbery levels in some neighbourhoods, including

Blackwall and Cubitt town and Canary Wharf, as well as the growth in violence against

women and girls across several wards.

We would encourage a sharper focus on early intervention, more visible neighbourhood policing

and partnership working in those areas where performance is moving in the wrong direction.

We look forward to seeing evidence of measurable improvements when this Committee next receives

an update.

I would like to thank you.

On that note, you are free to leave, or you can remain if you wish, and observe from the gallery.

Thank you.

Thank you chair.

Thank you.

Our final substantive item this evening is a spotlight on the council's

Source Be Well Leisure Centre. I am disappointed that the Chief Executive, Steve Holsey, is

unable to make it this evening. Before we get down to business, I do want to thank Darren,

Corporate Director of Communities, who unfortunately cannot be here tonight, and his team who provide

our committee with a tour of the leisure facilities. I also want to thank the operation managers

at the centres, taking the time out of their day to show us around the facilities and take

members' questions.

The bonus was that we were also able to speak to some of the residents.

This is a key area for our residents, not only for Leijon, but it should play a significant

role to the borough's population overall wellbeing.

We weren't able to visit all of them due to overrunning on the day.

However, I do feel there was enough there to help us understand the bigger picture of

how the Council is performing since insourcing this service.

What was noticeable from observation is that despite the large investment, there were clear

challenges with poor operational delivery.

We recognise there is a real need for investment on the upkeep and maintenance of the premises.

Time and time again we hear from residents about the cleanliness of facilities as an

issue, a common theme across our centres.

For this item can I welcome Councillor Minara Khatun, cabinet member for leisure, culture

and tourism.

We also have Councillor Mayim Paluktad, Deputy Mayor and also cabinet member for tackling

inequality, cost of living, improving customer services and voluntary engagement.

I understand David Joyce, corporate director of housing and resources is stepping in for

Steve Halsey.

I also see other officers.

I've got Ashraf Ali, director of public realm, who is here as part of the community's leadership

team.

We have Sam Brown, Director of Corporate Property and Estate.

Ellen Clark, Director of Workforce Organisational Design and Business Support.

We also have Peter.

We have Sarah Steir.

Thank you.

Welcome to you all.

Can I ask Councillor Cattone to start us off and then if the Deputy Mayor and Officers

wish to add to Councillor Cattone's comments.

You have 10 minutes for the overview,

but if you need all the time, I'm happy to extend.

Thank you, Chair.

And thank you to the committee members

for visiting the centres that you managed on 5th of October

and to the centre managers and staff who showed us around.

The report in front of you is sincere and honest.

Since taking on this portfolio,

we want to be clear about where we are, what we have found and what we are doing to fix it.

This administration was right to bring back leisure in -house in May 2024 because we believe

it should serve our residents health and wellbeing and not just a contract. That has not changed.

Free swimming alone has delivered over 71 ,000 swims this year, 93 % of this being women.

That shows what an in -house service can do for community.

Secondly, the service is not yet where it needs to be.

The report forthrightly says we cannot fix what we do not first acknowledge.

By fixing the basics, this does not mean we are waiting.

Action is happening now.

Contracts have been issued, posts are being recruited, pay recording is being automated

health and safety audits carried out in every centre.

Finally, I will touch on your call, one of our iconic buildings.

Most recently I visited again with my colleague, Councillor Thalha,

and senior officers teams on 2nd October.

Since this closure, safety has had to come first throughout.

I am sorry for the disruption to members, schools, clubs,

the boxing community, and to everyone that higher hearts

hold your call being a home to many events.

We have taken the opportunity of this temporary closure

to bring forward visible improvements work

to this treasured facility as it enters its second century

to reopen gloriously.

Our ambitions for leisure remain more for SEND children,

for women and girls, for elders, for families,

and better facilities overall for our communities.

Cabinet will consider the investment and commercial plan

on 25 November. I will now hand over to colleagues from the

service, assets management and HR, talk to committee through particular steps taken to

address ongoing issues and concerns. We welcome the committee's challenge questions. Thank

you, chair. Thank you, lead member. Deputy Mayor, would

you like to add anything to Councillor Minara's statement? Okay, no problem. Thank you.

We will take questions from members and then you can respond.

Thank you.

From this side.

Councillor, have you got a question?

Councillor Mahmoud, can you ask your question?

Hold on one second.

One second.

Councillor Mahmoud first and then Councillor Oula.

And then I'm going to get a response.

Thank you.

Ask your question, please.

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you all.

So the report says customers use demographic data are unreliable and performance measures

are not yet agreed.

So how have managers been making strategic decisions with reliable information and when

will a robust performance framework be in place?

Can I take Councillor Unle's question before we get some answers?

Thank you, Chair.

I'm conscious of time.

Be brief, please.

I'll be very brief.

Thank you.

It's a very depressing night.

We've got crime in the borough.

I have been in housing issues where people...

Thank you, we don't have time...

...leisure, how much money are we likely to lose because Christmas time, the boxing community and all sorts of other communities that really loved and cherished your call,

will we see a deficit in the accounts for the leisure department?

But I had a longer question which I'm sure I will use my public voice elsewhere.

Thank you, Councillor. Who would like to respond?

Thank you.

Just responding to those points in order, in terms of performance information, I was

brought in in May this year to look at the performance of the leisure centres and developed

a performance framework which would have assessed centre by centre.

So the comment about unreliable data was a lot of it you couldn't actually find at all.

It wasn't available.

things you may normally expect to receive as part of that assessment wasn't available.

So that's a gap.

It was as simple as that.

In terms of strategic decisions, decisions, there hasn't really been any strategic decisions

taken since then, really.

I don't think there has.

There's been operational decisions, but not necessarily anything strategic.

Strategic would be something like the redevelopment of St Georges.

Clearly that's a kind of cabinet decision.

It's not an operational decision.

In terms of your call, what the revenue loss at the moment is in the region of about 900k.

I think there's an exact figure that at the moment in time,

that's actually in the report, it might be 930, something like that, k.

And that's the estimated up until Christmas time.

That's the result of loss of revenue, customer loss, and also the events which has been quite

significant and a small element of loss of stock. And that's been just perishable

which you can't replace.

Did anyone answer, Councillor? Your question?

Nobody has answered the question.

Does it answer both your questions?

Councillor Oula, I'm giving you the last opportunity here.

Thank you, chair. Thank you for that. It was really useful.

You said there is no strategic decision. I know the absentee of the director of leisure is here and I don't want to go into it because HR.

but there is an ongoing pressing issue with Unite the Union the workforce issue. I really appreciated the visit

but can I just finish up on the question around strategic visions around data and usage of the Sports Centre?

How much of that are you now capturing because I'm conscious that if data is lost

that potentially the Leisure Centre John Orwell could be at risk of closing.

Yeah, through you chair just to respond to that data is captured in terms of utilisation

and it is broken down through membership.

But what you might expect it to be a bit broader than that

and actually capture every bit of usage.

So at the moment, we're only capturing utilisation

through membership when the people are actually

scanning in.

So if you go to a team event or a bigger event,

there's bigger numbers.

And I don't think we're capturing

that in a particularly sophisticated way

at the moment.

That needs to change as part of the process.

Thank you.

Thank you to the lead member and the officers.

The report says the insourcing programme was not successful.

Can you confirm who devised the insourcing programme?

Who was the ledger programme director?

which consultant gave the 10 -year model and did a ledger board monitor the

insourcing after service transferred to the council in 2024. And one more thing

obviously there was a lot of people who took it over to come to the council. How

many managers came over from GLL? How many staff came over if you could provide us

with some data.

Thank you.

Councillor Rupert, do you want to ask yours?

And then we'll get a response.

OK.

My questions centre on York Hall.

And I think the first line of questioning I'm interested in

is the communication with the public and staff

after the discovery of Legionella in the hall.

Most people here discovered Legionella reading it

in the slice.

They didn't read it from the communication

from the council and they may have heard rumours about it prior to reading about it in the

slice around Tower Hamlets, in the other gyms. I would like to know why the decision was

made not to be upfront with the public about that finding. In that gap the council lost

the grip on that communication with the public and on the storey. An immediate notification

of the public would have shown the council being in control and that communication didn't

happen. I've also got a more serious issue around the communications that I've been a

regular user of YourCall for a long time and I know a lot of the staff members because

I say hello to them a few times a week so I've been using other gyms where they've been

redeployed and none of the staff members who I've met, none of them think they have ever

been formally notified by the council about finding Legionella. And I really question

that decision as an employer if that was an appropriate thing for the council to do. They

may be misled but none of them think that it's been communicated on. And to be honest

it all seems very chaotic.

And I think my next question is about the chaos, in that your call and myelin gyms have

the two gyms I've used the most often been states of disrepair, whether the gym machines

aren't working, whether the tile floor at your call is left half -repaired for months

on end.

I have an issue that in the reports that I've requested around the survey reports, there's

a report from 2023 which talks about the issue of the dead legs and the pipe work and the

potential for Legionella and calls for something to take place and for a review to take place.

Now we see the problem now in 2026 that it's all to do with those problems that probably

would probably happen in 2023 in a survey, given the level of chaos in terms of the general

state of repair of your call in other places, it's very, very hard to have any confidence

that that report in 2023 was taken seriously, and though that risk taken with people's public

health was taken seriously.

So I would like an explanation of what was done with that report in 2023.

Thank you.

Can we get a response to Councillor Boudreaux and Councillor Wootford, please?

Thank you, Chair.

If I could answer some of the questions.

I can't answer them all, but I'll answer the ones that I can to begin with.

In terms of Director of Insourcing, there was multiple directors, my understanding, obviously I wasn't here,

but my understanding has been multiple changes which probably added to the confusion, shifts in direction, different decisions.

But there were a lot of people that were involved in it that probably didn't actually help matters too much

in terms in terms of the

insourcing

budget and the model that was a

an external consultancy that were

To create that

Ten year plan in ten year budget and that was then subsequently adopted by the council my understanding of that is

I'll pass questions with regards to Chupi, maybe to College in a second.

But the other one I probably can answer is about the gym equipment being broken and basically

what wasn't in place at the beginning, but there is a growth bid in for it now, is a

cyclical replacement programme.

So what you would normally expect to see in a leisure facility, public leisure facilities,

is a five year cyclical programme to replace all the kit.

In busy places like Mile End in particular,

you might be even saying four years.

But now there is a growth bid in place now to be assessed,

to actually put a programme in place

to refresh all the kit across sites.

And Mile End has recently been refreshed already,

but for the rest of the estate as a growth bid in.

But it does need to have a cyclical reinvestment.

It's a bit like a house.

It's a bottomless pit.

You have to keep putting money back into it.

You just can't stand still.

And that's the reality of the situation.

I'm going to get David to come in.

Sorry?

I'm going to get David to come in.

Then I can come back to you.

Did you get Councillor Boggs's question?

We quickly came in -house in 2024.

My question was, who was the director at the time?

Who was the consultant that gave us the 10 -year plan?

And you're giving me those directors involved.

I'm not getting answers.

Thank you.

Thank you, chair.

As I wasn't here, I can't give you all the names because I don't know.

I wasn't here, but we can certainly come back and give you those names.

And the consultancy company was a company called FMG.

Okay, we can, it's not fair, no, one second.

It's not fair because Peter's just explained that he can't answer that,

so we can get that in writing if you wish. Is that okay?

Thank you, thank you, chair.

One second. David, would you like to just come into the questions that's been already

asked and then obviously someone to answer Councillor Rupert's question as well?

Yeah, so I think we were going to go to Ellen, I think, to answer some of the questions on

true pay and staffing and the questions around that process, some of which were covered in

dead legs and what we knew and when and what action was taken I think is worth

saying and I know from talking to Sam and Sarah that that is precisely why we

had an enhanced compliance testing regime in place for this building so we

were testing it more regularly than would be required normally because we

wanted to be very much kind of on top of any potential risk which is exactly why

we find obviously we would rather not have found it but but we were testing it

more regoliths. I think it would be worth hearing from Ellen on the Chupy issues but

also Sam and Sarah on the kind of regime of testing that we have put in place and the

works that we are now doing to hopefully rectify it once and for all. So shall we start with

Ellen and then go along to Sam and Sarah.

Thank you. So similar to Peter, I wasn't here at the time, so if it's OK, Chair, I will

provide full information on the total number of people that chuped in at the point of transfer

to the committee afterwards.

In terms of the number of managers that chuped, we had six general managers that chuped at

the time.

We also had a suite of duty managers, but in early 2025, we also engaged with the service

around a restructure, so there have been some subsequent changes to the management structures

since the service was transferred in.

I think it's also worthwhile the committee noting that GLL operated a model where over

60 % of their staff were on casual contracts.

We have now converted those that want permanent contracts, 100 % of those that want permanent

contracts have got them.

We do have a cohort of 26 staff that have chosen to remain on casual contracts.

The predominant reason for that is to fit in with their existing lifestyle commitments.

Many of them are students or have other commitments that mean they have preferred to stay on casual

But I would also reassure the Committee that those casual terms are now offered on LBTH

terms, not GLL terms.

There are a number of other contracts that are currently still under review.

As a result of either being offered TUPE protection or because the existing grades or the salaries

associated with the roles are under review, we are expecting those to convert over the

coming weeks.

I think it's probably as David's covered, you know, the, you'll call, we all know the

buildings over 100 years old. There were no schematic drawings for any of the water system

that we had there. We did increase compliance, you know, regularly. Water testing is done

six monthly. We, we, we increased that to monthly, so we're doing it monthly. There's

And over the last two years, we've got to know the buildings a lot more.

They've only been in house for two years.

So we are finding more dead legs of pipe work.

Pipe work replacement was on the condition programme,

so the conditions that we had done in 2023.

We put a 10 -year plan together of that and the pipe work was

down for replacement over the next two years.

And again, it's a heritage building, so it's not something we can just go in

and replace the pipe work with.

We need to get a design consultant in.

We need to work with heritage, listed buildings before we can start that piece of work and

we need to do it as an occupied building so it's piecemeal, we need to do that in sections.

So there's a lot in your call that we need to cover with regards to condition.

Thanks and can I just also, just on a broader point and it is in the report but one of the

things that the Chief Executive and the Corporate Director for Communities have put in place

is a leisure taskforce that brings together all the different teams in the council to

address the issues and you know that's about making sure that we have a

coordinated approach and all the resources are going into turning some of

the issues around. Obviously that includes the kind of big investment

decisions that have to be made like the one that Sam just mentioned on York Hall

but I think also and the report is quite clear about the standards in some of the

leisure centres are not good enough. There is a need to improve the

cleanliness, some of the decoration, the tiling, the basics that people should

expect that people shouldn't have to complain about and that is something and

we want to have a more responsive service so that we can go in and fix

issues more quickly that's something that the Leisure Task Force chaired by

Darren is overseeing but I think it's worth saying as well that part of this

is about a historic legacy of the buildings that we inherited from the

the contractor where they had not carried out their responsibilities

really to upkeep those buildings and we now need to kind of recover that position which

is why the plan talks about the recovery stage but then hopefully moving into a much better

stage moving forward where we're actually improving buildings.

Is your question answered Councillor?

I made a really important question about communications and I'm quite conscious I don't believe there's

anyone here from the council communications team so I think it's slightly unfair on all

you but I think they are really serious questions for the council to answer on that.

David would you like to?

I am aware I mean I haven't been involved in this myself but I am aware that this has

been an issue that we are reflecting on so my understanding is updates were given to

members of different facilities including in this case York Colburn I mean it sounds

like you are a member and I'm not sure from the sense that you got an update but my my

assurance has been that we did update members but I think there is an

acceptance that we could have been not everyone is a member who uses York

call and I think we could have been more proactive about that is something that

we're looking at as part of the leisure task force is how we do better proactive

communications because I think you are right that we didn't do well enough in

this space I am concerned to hear that you didn't hear as an actual member of

the building so we will we will take that away and follow up on that just

Just before you follow up on that, I think it's important that this is noted, that even

members like ourselves, not members of the Be Well, we did not have any communication.

The communication came very, very late.

I am a Councillor of Bethnal Green East Ward.

There was many residents contacting us about your call, so the communication came very,

very late.

But do you want to ask yours?

Can I just follow up on the point about staff?

I do understand that probably none of you are actually responsible for that call, although

Ellen may know.

But I really would like to be reassured the staff have been formally told.

So I don't know if someone could report back to this committee about when the staff have

been formally told and when it's dated.

And if it hasn't happened, I really would suggest you did it.

I'm the co -opted resident and I just want to say it's excellent we're investing in health.

It's incredibly important for our borough.

But how are we making sure it's accessible to all residents given a cost of living crisis

and rising mental health problems?

And secondly, will there be more schemes like the free swimming going forward?

Do you want to ask your question?

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Officer and Lead Member, for your nice presentation.

A laser improvement task force has been established to oversee recovery and improvement.

Recovery will be delivered through a phased approach, stabilised from 2026, consolidate

from 2027, and growth from October 2027.

What measurable target will be used to assess progress during consolidation in 2027 and

readiness for growth from October 2027?

If I could, chair, could answer some of that, if we could.

One second.

And then on the 2P, if you want to come in as well.

Thank you.

I'll answer the bit around residents and access to facilities.

Probably uniquely more so than anywhere else that I've actually seen is the amount of free

swimming, free offers, free classes that are accessible to residents.

Certainly this year there's been the free swimming for people over 35 years of age,

which is probably unheard of anywhere else.

And that's a really positive thing.

In terms of other access, the costs of a membership

is pretty much similar to your neighbouring authorities.

Ideally, I think you'd probably like it to be lower,

but then you need to balance the books.

You operate in a commercial world in leisure.

So there's a point which becomes unaffordable

with everything's free.

So there's still a commercial entity to sort of manage.

But the amount of free offers that are available to residents

is quite significant compared to most other authorities.

In terms of the task force and the phases,

it's planned to take that through from sort

of stabilisation, consolidating the service, getting to business as usual. It's not as

static as it sounds, there's other things going on in the background, so looking ahead

to growth in the future, that would be the last thing, but that doesn't mean to say you

wait until you get to that point before you actually do it, there's the background work

of assessing projects and schemes which can actually develop the service and increase

increase the offer, increase the commerciality of it as well in terms of revenue generation

and a greater offer. Those things have to take time and go through a process of evaluation.

So we don't just come up with an idea today and it's implemented tomorrow, we take it

through a process of which we actually evaluate, test the feasibility of it and understand

it and plan it properly. So those things can happen but the actual delivery will be further

down the line once you've gone through that process.

And that's what we're trying to do in the task force

as it stands at the moment.

Sort of meets every week to assess progress.

You know, we're still in that stabilisation phase

at the moment, dealing with a lot of HR issues,

pay issues, contracting issues.

You think when you get through that bit,

you think you begin to move on to a little bit more

stable ground to take us forward.

I think that the long term ambition is to get to a place where it's business as usual,

you can actually grow the service, but at the moment, you know, it's, I wouldn't say

it's quite chaotic, but it is in a place where there's a lot of attention and a lot of resource

going to fix things at the moment.

David, do you want to come in?

Yeah, I just wanted to come back on Councillor George's point about staff.

One of the things that the taskforce is looking at is developing a closure protocol for all

unplanned closures of buildings in future. I mean hopefully obviously these

will be minimised but they do happen so one of the things we want to do is a

consistent approach. I think the point you've made about staff we will make

sure is reflected in any similar event in future where there is a closure that

and staff are displaced that we are keeping them up to date about what is

happening with the building in which they usually work.

On that, I'm going to ask this question.

David, or anybody really, where have the staff at York Hall been relocated to once it's obviously

closed?

Good answer that, Chair.

They've been distributed across the estate, they've not been to one specific site.

It's across the remainder of the estate.

There's obviously still some people at York Hall to facilitate contractors coming in,

doing the sort of other compliance testing, but the vast majority of people have been

spread around the estate, filling vacancies, filling gaps, reducing the agency's spend.

All of that's been taking place.

Would you like to come in, Ellen, at all, on staffing?

Just a couple of other things to answer some questions.

So from a KPI or from a performance metrics, obviously we know what a good and healthy

workforce looks like.

So in addition to some of the metrics that Peter's talked to, we are monitoring things

like investment in staff training and development, investment in management training and development.

We are launching some apprenticeships to help develop the workforce within our leisure community.

We've got some fantastically talented young people and we want to be able to support their

progression.

It's a different model to GLL and we know that we need to do things differently so we'll

be doing that.

There are other key metrics, so things like absence levels, progression levels, people

leaving the authority and obviously one of the key measures of success for us as a council

is a reduction in both industrial relations and employee relations issues.

So they are all part of the ongoing metrics that are built into the taskforce and that

Darren will be able to report on regularly moving forward.

Thank you, Ellen.

Deputy Mayor.

We want to continue the existing schemes.

And also going forward we want to promote more indoor and outdoor activities for women and girls.

and also I can give you an example.

For example, the May's Cup has been very successful.

The lead member can come in.

We had so many women and girls teams involved in the tournament.

Normally we didn't.

So I think last year was the first year.

So things like that, we want to promote it,

we want to get more women and girls involved

and going forward this is what we're going to do.

and then hopefully in the future we can review and see what else we can invest in.

Really good to hear.

I just want to additionally say what our deputy mayor said.

We had a very successful mayor's cup this year from badminton to cricket to football

and these are the kind of activities we want the community to get involved across our hamlets

and families to get involved in to bring them together.

and with regards to schemes, yes, we are reviewing.

And additionally, our free swim and free classes have been really successful,

but we are looking at other activities that will benefit the community.

Thank you.

Does anyone have any more questions before...

Okay, hold on.

I'm only going to take one more question.

Whoever hasn't had an opportunity, because I'd like to have an opportunity as well.

So Jahid hasn't asked, did you want to, you want to ask?

Okay, can you be very…

Thank you, Chihan, I'm always pretty quick, so.

I know I have to apologise if it's already in the report or if you've mentioned it,

and I didn't hear it, so apologies.

But I just want to, just a clarification around your call and the reopening.

Is there an indicative timeframe where your call is expected to reopen, especially the

pool area and the legionnaires' staff have been discovered and dealt with, and the returning

of staff?

Thank you.

I think it's good to say that we are reliant on the test results.

So we can't provide a firm date.

We require free, clear, leading -level test results

once we've carried out the works to that building before we can reopen.

So, you know, we're giving indicative dates

and hoping that we get to that stage with free, clear results.

But past results have come back positive

and there is a possibility that that might not happen.

Thank you.

OK, I'm going to ask the last two questions, if I may,

and then I'm going to wrap it up.

Thank you.

Okay, so firstly, I would like to express...

Okay.

Apologies.

Thank you, Chair, for taking the last question.

It's going to be probably a grassroots question.

Since all the centres have been in -house,

the Mayor has spent a lot of money towards the sports centres.

I've got a particular question on the stadium itself.

I don't know if you are aware of it, anybody,

that the lot of events that belong to Tower Humblyt's residence

that's not taking place in Tower Hamlets

because of the quality of the pitch.

That's really terrible.

I've been getting complained as a counsellor

because I myself as a sportsman.

I grew up playing in that stadium

since last 30 odd years, 30, 40 years, I guess.

And the money being spent

Is it being spent?

Is there any changes that since our in -house been taking place

last, I think it was two years ago,

because a lot of, because I have visited a similar pitch in Birmingham yesterday

and it was like day and night different, the quality of the...

Are you likely to get those things right and get these youth playing in the stadium rather

than going outside?

Thank you, Councillor.

Just last week the mayor was exactly what you said, the mayor said.

I don't know if you had a conversation with him.

But I mean, yes, this is something we are reviewing.

This is something we are looking at.

Possibly there might be a growth coming in.

This is something we are seriously going to consider.

I totally agree with you.

I am a sportsman myself.

I think I have scored more goals than you.

I hope you agree.

Definitely this is something we will be looking at.

Thank you.

So, last two questions from me.

But once again, I would like to express

overview and scrutiny committee's disappointment that neither the chief executive or the corporate

directors of communities are in attendance, given the significance of this.

I would like to ask my two questions and if officers or lead members can answer, I would

appreciate it.

If not, I am more than happy for the committee to get a written response.

My first question is how did overview and scrutiny committee move from receiving assurances

in January that the service was on track to being told in October that the foundations

of a well -run service were never properly put in place.

That's my first question.

And the second one is if the service budget does not reflect the true cost of operating

the service, how many previous budget reports and forecasts presented to members were fundamentally

unreliable?

Thank you.

Anyone willing to respond?

Thank you, Chair.

More than willing to respond as far as I can.

In terms of the previous scrutiny report in January, that clearly it wasn't part of scripting,

I mean, I think it's expressed in the report that you've got today that it was very much

a rose -tinted view of the world and it's not proven to be correct, hence why you've got

the task force in place now to put a corrective action plan into place.

In terms of the budgets, I'm not really sure what was being reported previously because

I wasn't actually around for that, so I can't respond to that question with any degree of

accuracy.

Although all the budgets that I've seen since just reflective against the 10 -year plan,

It does say in the report that a 10 year budget plan is not correct.

It can't be achieved.

That's fine.

I'm more than happy to get a written response.

Do you want to come in, David?

Yeah, I just wanted to make the point that I am here for the Chief Executive.

So the Chief Executive is represented tonight and also Alan as Director of HR, Sam as Director.

So I do appreciate the point.

a number of people's leave has coincided on the same week, but we have made sure that

they are represented and I am here on the Chief of Staff's behalf.

I appreciate everybody's presence, but this had to be noted only because I'm having to

get certain things back in writing and members are not happy that there was last minute cancelations.

So I do appreciate everyone's presence, but this had to be noted.

Moving on, I've just got some closing comments, if I may.

Sure.

I just, Chair, with all respect, I really, I put in a member's inquiry about the communication

plan around your call on the 9th of September.

It's never been responded to.

About the communication plan about the closure.

I really would like the question answered in a written form about the decision made

to not notify people and whether staff have been notified or not. Thank you. Notified

about Legionella, staff notified about Legionella. I just want to say thank you, Councillor,

thank you, Chair. Your answers to your questions will be given in writing. Thank you.

Thank you, lead member. So on the back of the site visit and today's discussion, OSC

The committee recognises the efforts being made to stabilise the leisure service, including

the implementation of the improvement programme and the establishment of stronger governance

arrangements.

However, we remain concerned that significant improvements are still required across a number

of key areas, including workforce stability, staff relations, health and safety compliance,

asset maintenance, customer communications and overall operational resilience.

The closure of York Hall has also highlighted weaknesses in service management and contingency

planning, which must be tackled to ensure the service is capable of delivering consistently

high standards for residents.

Our committee recognises that recovery will take some time, but remain concerned about

the financial position of the service, particularly the income loss arising from facility closures

and the longer -term sustainability of the operating model.

Given the scale of the challenges and budget pressures facing the surveys, I'm going to

recommend that the financial performance and sustainability of the leisure surveys be added

to the work programme of our finance, scrutiny, task and finish group.

This will enable further detailed scrutiny as part of the Council's budget -setting process.

We look forward to seeing evidence of measurable improvements and can I request we get another

update from the service within the next six months.

It's important we monitor and have a watching brief on this area given the level of public

demand and feedback we are getting from our residents.

On that note, you are free to leave or you can remain in the public gallery.

Thank you.

Video playing

850

We have no time.

We have run out.

We can take the scrutiny lead updates in writing.

Do you want to send it through?

Thank you.

So we are going to close the meeting.

Thank you.

Finally, we have our corporate improvement workshop on the 27th of October from 6 to 8 .30 pm.

This is an important piece of best value work that we all attend as a community.

it will set our next phase of our improvement journey and what's needed.

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Overview & Scrutiny CommitteeMonday, 19th October 2026 at 6:30pm

Overview & Scrutiny Committee
Monday, 19th October 2026 at 6:30pm