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Licensing Sub Committee
Thursday, 1st October 2026 at 6:30pm

 

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Good evening and welcome to the licencing subcommittee.
My name is Councillor Shubo and I will be chairing the meeting.
This meeting is being held in person.
Committee members and key participants are present in the meeting room.
Only the committee members present in the room will be able to vote.
Other persons may be also able to attend remotely.
committee members and others who have chosen to attend remotely have been advised by the
committee officer that should technical difficulties prevent their participation in the meeting,
it may proceed in the absence if I feel it is necessary.
I will ask everyone to introduce themselves shortly, but before I do this, I would like
to briefly confirm the protocol for addressing the meeting, including the virtual meeting
procedure.
participants must address the meeting through myself as chair and whenever you
see the red light on you should press the red light on your one once my one
turns off to ever speaking if you are participating online and you experience
any technical difficulties you must contact Democratic services as soon as
via email. However, officers may not be able to respond to all such requests. You
should keep your microphones and cameras switched off at all times. Please do not
use this meeting chat facility because any information that's added it will be
discarded and most likely not read. I will now ask the members present to
introduce themselves. Please can you also state any declarations of interest that
may have in the agenda items and the nature of the interest, please.
Hello, I'm a Councillor for Sir Ahmed from Landry Ward. I have nothing to do.
Hi, Councillor Abulkashian. Hello, I'm from Achalwad Councillor.
I know, thank you.
Can I now ask the members, the officers to introduce themselves, please.
Jonathan Melnick, Legal Advisor to the subcommittee.
Justina Bridgman, Democratic Services Officer.
Ibrahim Hussein, Licencing Officer.
Justina, do you have any apologies for today?
No, Chair. Everyone is present.
All right.
Can members know the rules of procedure on pages 9 to 18 of the agenda?
Can I get a thumbs up?
Councillor?
That's okay?
Can we now approve the meetings from the 3 September 2026 meeting?
Thank you.
So we'll now move on to agenda item 4, licencing.
Actually, we have to note that there's one application that's been withdrawn today.
So we'll be moving on to Agenda 4 .2.
That is for new premises licence, McDonald's, 2 Trafalgar Way, London E14, 5SP.
Justina, could you kindly announce those in attendance, please?
Yes, Chair. We have the applicant's agent, Leo Charamidolis, present. He also has John
Betts, who is not going to speak but is present to answer any questions members may have.
We also have the objector, Liam Ison.
All right.
Levine's not here.
So can I ask Ibrahim Hussein to kindly introduce the report, please?
Thank you, Chair.
This is an application for new premises licencing with respect of McDonald's to Truffle, Galway,
London E14 5SP. This application is for provision of late night refreshment. Appendix 1, page
111 to 128 contain a copy of the premises licence application. The applicant, McDonald's
Restaurant Limited, described the premises as a restaurant selling hot food, non -alcoholic
drinks consumption on and off from the premises. This application seeks for the following hours.
The revision of late night refreshment indoors, Monday to Sunday from 11pm to 5am next morning.
Opening hours premises to be open 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.
Member's assistance, for member assistance, Appendix 2, page 129 to 31, content photograph of the premises surrounding areas.
Appendix 3, page 132 can be found, site plan, Appendix 4, page 133 to 35 contain map of
the surrounding areas.
One representation has been received from the local residents.
Representation can be found on Appendix 5 on page 135 to 114.
Members should know the condition has been agreed between the applicant and Environmental
protection. This can be found on Appendix 6 on page 142 to 144.
The aggregate condition incorporate measures for noise control, notice encouraging customers
to disperse quietly and steps to reduce any nuisance caused by their delivery drivers.
Late supplementary documents received from the residents, which can be found on page
on the supplementary documents concerning regarding 24 hours trading, delivery and public
nuisance.
Chair, that concludes my presentation of the report.
I'm happy to answer any questions if members have.
Thank you, Chair.
I'll hand it back to you.
Thank you, Ibrahim.
Can I now ask if members have any questions to the officers?
I now invite the applicant Leo Cara Lambite to speak in support of the application.
You have five minutes.
Sir, thank you very much for that.
Firstly, you will be aware that this premises has been granted planning permission for 24 -hour
operation in accordance with your own policies. So as a matter of planning amenity, which
is far wider and bigger than the licencing objectives, your local authority has already
found this application to operate in this way entirely suitable. You will also be familiar
that the new paragraph 1 .19 of the section 182 guidance reinforces the importance of
consistency and integration between licencing, planning and your wider policies. So as part
of your regeneration of the site, part of your redevelopment of the site, you want to
see a 24 -7 quick service restaurant at this location. Secondly, you'll have already observed
that there are no responsible authorities that have made representations against this
Paragraph 9 .12 of Section 182 guidance tells you that police, licencing, environmental
health, they're the experts in their respective fields and they are to be listened to given
that they've looked at this application, it's been confirmed in the report, I'm grateful
for that, you can take comfort that the experts are saying we have no objection and in fact
when looking at the representation that's been made, you must think about the weight and the lens to apply to that.
And with no criticism to Mr Eisen, you'll have already observed that he spends a lot of time talking about public safety
and his concerns are about traffic, road crossing and so on, which, all very important, but for the purpose of the licencing regime,
are not relevant because the Section 182 guidance tells you that public safety as an objective
is concerned with the safety of persons on the premises, not how they cross the road
some distance away. There is a clear operating schedule which I won't go through but I'll
answer any questions you may have, which covers everything from CCTV, staff safe, training,
litter picks, noise and so on, all of which are conditioned in any event.
I will focus a little bit on litter in the time I have.
What I will say is that we have a litter map.
We cover the area around Trafalgar Way.
Our litter patrols generally happen as a minimum three times a day,
at sunrise in the middle of the day and at sunset.
We don't send people out at night because it's just not safe.
We've extended the litter area to go through the underpass on the way to Blackwell
and we'll cover the area of the local residents as well.
And that's always kept under review and subject to risk assessment and we clear up all litter.
The franchisee at this location has been with McDonald's for 30 years.
He was Vice President and part of the executive team of operations, so he knows how to operate a premises.
He has been a franchisee since 2022.
He has 16 restaurants, of which seven operate 24 hours, and the others operate to their maximum allowed for licencing and their location.
He's also a local resident and lives less than 10 minutes away from this particular store.
So by way of introduction
I'm going to commend this application to you. I see no good lawful reason why it should be
refused and as I only have five minutes
I hope I've touched on a number of the key areas and of course I'm available to answer any
questions and as some of you know because some of you know me I can talk for a very long time about
very many things and there'll be very few questions I can't answer but if I
can't John is here to answer them for me so thank you very much.
Thank you. Can I now ask Liam Eisen to speak on the application? You've got five
minutes.
Okay, hi, I'm Liam. I have a bit of the flu, so I will make it short.
And it's my first time I've been to the licencing meeting.
And I was only sent today the rules, so if I misspeak then apologies for that.
and to my understanding I'm not meant to say about things
which have already been mentioned within my,
the application.
Sorry if you could turn your mic off for a second.
Is it off?
Yes, now.
Sorry, why don't you maybe move it a little bit closer to you
because I'm certainly having a little trouble here
and I don't know if anyone else is.
That's great.
Ultimately what you can't do is add anything
to your representation that's not already being said.
The committee have got your papers.
You can obviously, if there's particular bits
of your representation that you wish to focus on,
you're more than welcome to deal with those.
It's obviously your opportunity to explain to the committee
why you're saying that this application should be refused.
Yeah?
Yeah, okay.
Thank you for the clarification.
Let's see.
So first I wasn't aware of the further points which were mentioned there about the 3 times a day litter pick of the litter map.
So I would ask you to refuse or if you are in mind to grant it then perhaps applying the licence with some conditions.
So, to my understanding, there is no late night premises within 40 metres,
so it would be the only late night premises nearby, in a growing residential area.
The area has changed since 2005, that's when the last licence was granted,
and there's many residential areas, Wolfside Point South,
which is seeing the litter, the effects of the daytime litter at the moment.
Boardwalk Place, the large student accommodation,
which is in the building already.
And as I mentioned in my objection as well,
Billingsgate, when it's developed, there will be more residents there.
So we're seeing the current environmental effects of the applicant,
and from my understanding what I read about the application,
I think it was Environmental Health agreed with a couple of the points,
but I think it was two out of the three points which were raised,
were not seeming, let's say, when asked about the noise and the nuisance
for the local area, they said they would just have signs
to encourage the people to leave the premises and be quiet.
And that's not having a guidance,
something like that, it's not something enforceable.
Yes, in the application that said that the premises
is not liable for the criminal activity
or things outside of the premises,
But during, in the premises, or on the premises surrounding area,
I'm not sure what I was going for here, but there is some, I believe,
as in, let's say, licencing for a pub,
that the premises has a responsibility
of how those, of anything which happens with those.
I've got, I've lost my train of thought.
Liam, you've got just under a minute.
Okay, thank you. To reiterate again, the litter is already happening,
multiple residents have photographed what was included,
and as a result it's going to increase the cost of the leasehold service charges,
And as a condition of the licence, as what was in the earlier licence, I think there should be enforceable conditions to have a daily litter pick at least.
And then also to include the side of the wharf side point south which is being affected by the litter.
Tower Hamlets has a problem with waste and litter and I don't think the councils can be expected to absorb more.
And it causes a nuisance for the residents.
So a lot of this, a lot of my supplementary was included.
Thank you Liam.
Sorry bro.
Yeah, no problem.
So now moving on, do members have any questions?
I can just start off.
I think one of the points Liam mentioned, but I think the applicants addressed that
they will have litter picking around Aspen Way.
Maybe the applicant could confirm if it's how often it will be?
Because I heard it's daily.
So absolutely it is daily.
So what happens in all stores and in this store is that there's a litter map.
As you and your colleagues know, no premises can be held responsible
for the irresponsible actions of persons once they leave the premises.
However, we find litter as offensive as you and the local residents.
And so what all McDonald's stores do and what this store does is it has dedicated litter
picks.
So the first one tends to be in the morning after, normally after the breakfast rush.
There then tends to be a second one after the lunchtime rush.
And then there tends to be a third one after the after school early evening rush because
trade just falls off after about 7 .30, 8 o 'clock as a broad generalisation.
And so what each store will have is a map, and I've got a map here of a local area.
That goes through risk assessment with our health and safety and insurance people.
Obviously we're not going to clean the dual carriageway or go along the dual carriageway.
That would be putting people at risk and you wouldn't want that.
but the area around the store and accessible areas,
and what we can do is on the litter map,
which is always available in the store,
and your officers can inspect it,
will go as far as that first residential premises,
and we will undertake those litter picks.
We pick all litter, not just our own litter,
and it's disposed of.
The other thing we can do, though this can be difficult,
is with the local authority we can sponsor additional bins.
The problem with sponsoring bins is that we need planning permission,
highways permission and terrorist permission.
So if we can find a way we will do that.
The other thing we do is we engage with local areas.
So if there's an obvious park or an area we'll do annual
Love Where You Live campaign and the premises will sponsor
litter picking with local schools or community groups and again, we're available to be contacted either through the council or
through
Local residential groups and so that's that's the approach that we take
That's a minimum and you're welcome to condition it. I'm sure Jonathan can advise that so there should be a minimum
Of
three litter picks per day
equally spaced, which are subject to risk assessment and are kept under review and a
map of the litter pick area shall be kept on the premises, however that suits you. Whether
that's a condition or not, that will be happening. I hope that's comprehensive enough for you
and the local resident. Thank you for that. So just to confirm, those
three times a day, times are not set stone because just in case because
there's now a lot of bars, Wood Wharf, all that stuff, I'm just thinking about the
night economy as well. Someone might want a happy meal or whatever, midnight, you
know, are those certain times, morning, lunch, evening, set stone or could it
always be adaptable depending on foot flow? So it's adaptable, so we ideally, a
store likes to be adaptable. So for example, if there's a heavy concentration of schools
and there also happens to be youth clubs, that sort of peak after school early dinner
time can be quite later in some areas. So there wants to be some flexibility. The reason
I say from sunrise to sunset is after dark we don't send people out beyond the immediate
catchment area. So our immediate catchment area is kept under review, that's well lit,
It's covered by CCTV, so it's safe for our staff.
But at 9, 10, 11, 12 o 'clock, 1, 2 in the morning,
we're not going to send people into the wider area.
Very often, it's in breach of our health and safety,
employment policies, and insurance policies.
Thank you.
Jonathan?
That's quite helpful that you said that, Mr. Sharlam -Beadies,
because I was going to be asking if members didn't
about the possibility of that being conditioned.
Obviously, would you be able to send me a copy of the map
that would show where the litter picking would take place,
or if need be, I can simply insert that into the condition
that the map will need to be provided in due course,
because obviously it's gonna be useful
for the licencing authority in particular
to know where these litter picks take place.
I have a very bad printout which you're welcome to.
I can ask my instructing solicitors to send it to you.
What I would ask in terms of the wording is that the...
So the approach that John takes is that he has an outer perimeter,
which is where he'll pick within that.
But we try and keep our maps flexible,
because occasionally we will become aware that there are particular areas or locations that we need.
So I can send a copy of the current map and keep an up -to -date version of the map on the store
that's available for inspection by the licencing team.
I was going to suggest in any event, if you send over maybe with some suggested wording
that I can obviously take back to the committee when they're dealing with their consideration,
but the other thing that I would have been suggesting is something along the lines of
in the event of any changes to maps, because I appreciate you're going to have to have
the degree of operational flexibility that those are just communicated to the local authority
on an as and when basis so that we've always got an up to date map or if need be available
on request.
Councillors?
Councillor Ahmed?
Thank you.
Thank you.
Just a quick question.
Obviously, what was the name?
Object.
Sorry.
Mr Eisen.
Yeah, Mr Eisen.
He mentioned, sorry, sorry.
about public nuisance and crime disorder.
Just quickly, how would you prevent this?
I know you have on your application, you spoke about the CCTV
and you have a few operating in the area.
But just to mitigate some of the noise that would happen
just outside of that boundary that you have in your map,
how would that be mitigated? Thank you.
I can go through the crime disorder and ASP measures.
Firstly, in terms of ASP in relation to noise, smells and so on,
the extractors and all of that is subject to the planning permission.
So we have silencers and all of that is,
I mean the store has only opened last week so it really is the top of the range.
The next thing we do is we have a series of conditions as well as the operating.
So we've got CCTV, we've got StaffSafe.
StaffSafe is a system whereby in the store someone can press a button
and that will link our audio -visual to a central unit, which I think is based in Scotland, isn't it?
And what happens there is someone comes over the microphone and says,
you there, with the yellow water bottle, put your pen down.
And so when you've got this disembodied voice calling attention to you in the store,
it has a particular reaction, it tends to calm things down.
The other thing we do is we control the type of music.
It's, I think, a really sad fact for those of you that might be interested in classical music,
is if you play classical music in McDonald's or any store, it tends to tend people away and turn people off.
So we can change the music.
The other thing is we do is we can take away the free Wi -Fi and we can also take away the charging.
We have fully lit around the surrounding area, so our CCTV captures people very well as they're coming in or out.
The other thing we have is, again I find this particularly sad, is most of you can now order
from your phone or on the kiosk.
So what that means is you never have to talk to a human person.
So there's no scope for having an argument of you got my order on, why have you messed
up?
And there you go.
We can also control how many people come in and can stay in the store by closing the upstairs
or the downstairs.
So it's very reactive, which is why we have training and also conflict training through MOBO.
So what that effectively means is that there is this store that is trained and committed to responding to crime disorder and anti -social behaviour.
and there are a variety of measures that have been trialled nationally and are employed
and are constantly refined as we operate to ensure that we are very low crime generators
or we are reactive. And in fact I'd invite you to consult your own experience. How many
McDonalds have you reviewed or had to prosecute? I suspect the answer is none because if you
had I'd be defending them and to the great horror of my bank account I've never had to
represent a Macdonald's on a review and I have been working on them for nearly 20 years.
These are trusted partners in the promotion of the licencing objectives.
Councillor Haynes, do you have a question? I have just got one more in terms of I read
somewhere that you will, after a certain time it has to be non -powered delivery,
there's some of the delivery drivers where, how would you avoid noise
disturbances from delivery drivers from idling after a certain time post 11 p .m.
Let's just see.
So for the past few years, new stores have been specifically built to cater for and provide
for the delivery service.
So you'll see on the map in your pack, for some reason I printed out the agenda and only
printed out my relevant pages that don't have page numbers.
But at appendix three...
On appendix four, I think, the map.
Thank you, Mr Melnick.
I shouldn't have been so familiar earlier.
But you'll see there with the ground floor plan...
Oh, sorry, are you familiar with the plans?
Yes.
Yes.
So for example, you see in the top left corner of the ground floor plan,
there's the delivery room.
So the modern stores such as this mean that the drivers have a separate entrance and exit.
That is covered by CCTV.
They're normally, as part of our agreement, not allowed to wear their helmets.
So what that means is if you come into the store, one, you're coming into the store so
you're not idling.
So offering a warm place is a great boon.
Secondly, they have toilet facilities.
Thirdly, they have a dedicated space.
And so we're able to match orders to the particular driver.
So where there are concerns, for example, particularly premises where alcohol is delivered,
obviously not McDonald's, but there are concerns about due diligence and so on.
You're able to match delivery, driver, destination and so that deals with that.
Secondly, with all our third -party operators there are developing and
evolving codes of conduct with each of them where we set out our expectations
of third -party delivery drivers, the supplier, so Uber Eats, Deliveroo,
just eat them, my mind went blank, thank you.
They also have concordance with us.
So we have a set of standards that we expect
from these third party operators,
who are all essentially self -employed and agents.
We're able to identify who they are,
and we're able to block any persons
that are complained about for us.
We've also agreed, in addition to our protocols with them,
we've agreed with your environmental health officer that there will be display notices
requesting to remain quiet, respectful, keeping noise to the minimum, and having no engines idling.
And actually, engines idling is a bit of an urban myth.
If you think about being a delivery driver and the kind of wages that they have,
running their engines, wasting fuel
in this kind of climate costs them money.
So generally it's in their interest not to idle
their engines. But again by virtue of the fact that you have to come into our store
it means you're parking up, not idling and coming in.
The other way in which we control idling is how much time it takes for us to release
an order. So we can control the amount of time it takes
for our order to hit an available driver. So rather than hanging around, there is a
small window of a couple of minutes in which they need to register the order, it's ready,
they're able to come and collect. So generally speaking, if you're collecting from a McDonald's,
there is a very fast turnaround. It is in their interest to speak to a fast turnaround,
because otherwise they're losing money, they make money on deliveries. So all of these
factors mean that the impact of third party delivery drivers is in fact minimal and often overstated.
Thank you and last question, you spoke about the cleaning and you're going to send the
map over to Jonathan. The previous licence had specific writing that you're going to
keep the footpath clear outside of the store I believe. Would you be retaining that?
Or is that part of the vicinity within the map?
Page 106, I don't know if you've got the papers in front of you.
It's the old condition.
Let's say they're interesting.
CCTV system in operation on the premises while open to the public.
Immediate access to the CCTV system will be provided to police officers and council officers at their request.
Condition to footpath immediately outside the front of the restaurant is to be kept clear of litter emanating from the premises.
And then the third condition is not one that I'd necessarily suspect the committee would be bothered at.
Children's parties won't be held during the licenced period.
But I suspect, I think the...
So I just want to clarify, is that within the map?
It is within the map, and in terms of the immediate error in front of the store,
because it's well lit and covered by CCTV, that gets dealt with a lot more regularly than the litter pegs.
So if you wanted to include that condition about the front area you can,
but in any event it's included within our litter -peck.
these days in any event, obviously it's not worded in the way we'd normally expect,
I mean if that was to get, what was your client's position in terms of that being a condition
if the committee grant the licence, and it's worded in the usual 31 days retention, time
stamping, etc. So we used to provide wording, and in fact recently we got told off, so what
What we are very welcome is your own house style.
So we're committed to CCTV and all those factors.
As I say, when we provide a detailed operating schedule,
people complain and they want to use their own wordings.
And then I get to tonight and we don't provide that wording
and you're telling me to go home
and send you some wording.
Either or, and also I have every confidence
that Mr Melnick will, his drafting skills are second to none and his familiarity with licencing is the same.
So I can't imagine I'd ever object to your CCTV condition or indeed your litter pick condition.
And I just wanted to clarify something with Mr Reichen as well, which is useful.
In terms of where you are, I am right in thinking that your blocks and the ones that you're referring to
are up by Poplar Business Park
on the other side of the roundabout, is that correct?
So yeah, it's next to Poplar Business Park,
so you have McDonald's, and then you have the roundabout,
and you have the underpass,
and then the first building on the left
is Wharfside Point South, where I live, yeah.
And if you turn left, you have Wharfside Point on the left,
and then you have Poplar Business Park further on that road.
Thank you.
I love how lawyers compliment each other.
So now moving on to concluding remarks. Mr. Eisen, you have one minute.
So thanks for hearing my objection. I guess my concerns were just that the plan seemed a bit empty
and there were a few things which were not mentioned in the plan but they were out today.
I have nothing else to say.
Thank you.
Can I now get a minute from the applicants, please?
Just to commend the application to you, I have nothing to add, but I'm very happy to
compliment Jonathan in my remaining time.
Thank you very much, and thank you to Mr Eisen for attending.
Thank you for your contributions today.
The subcommittee will deliberate in a private session after this meeting ends and Democratic
Services will forward the decisions to the members and to you all I think within the
next five working days.
So keep an eye out.
Thank you.
May I ask, are you okay for me to hand up this map for you?
Would that help you to leave it?
Yeah, if you've got it you can.
Thank you.
Cheers.
So yeah, you're all good to go now.
Thank you.
Now moving on to the application idle moments 86 Columbia Road, London e27
Qb this is the last application this evening and this is a variation premises licence
For idle moments Justina. Could you kindly?
Announce those who are in attendance, please
Today we have for this application
applicant Amit Patel and objector Timothy Adler.
Thank you. Can I now invite Ibrahim Hussein. By the way, after the application you both
have the applicants and the objectors have five minutes on the presentation, so just
to let you guys know. Can I get Ibrahim Hussein to kindly introduce the report, please?
Thank you, Chair. This is an application for variation of the premises licence for Edli
Umoemen's 86 Columbia Road, London E27 KUB. Appendix 1 on page 151 to 60 contain copy
of the premises licence.
Appendix 261 to 271 contain the copy
of the existing premises licence.
The applicant, Italy Moments Limited,
is seeking add the sense of alcohol
for consumption on the premises,
extend the permitted hours for the sense of alcohol,
extend the opening hours of the premises,
and recorded music on Thursday, Friday, and Saturday evening.
Members should note that the current licence allows the sense of alcohol for off -sales only from 8am till 9pm daily.
For members' assistance, Appendix 3, page 172 to 78, contains a photograph of the premises surrounding areas.
Appendix 4, page 179 to 83 contain the site plan.
Appendix 5, page 181 to 82 contain map of the surrounding areas.
Appendix 6, page 184 to 85 contain details of the licenced premises in the local 18.
The presentation has been received from the local residents.
The main concerns are noise disturbance, the introduction of the sounds of
recorded music potential impact of nearby residential properties.
The representation can be found on Appendix 729, page 186 to 191.
Members should also note the condition has been agreed with the Environmental Protection,
which can be found on Appendix 10, page 192.
This condition reflects noise management, customer disposal, delivery, waste collection
and management of patrons smoking outside the premises.
Supplementary documents received on 30 September,
which can be found on page 328,
the main concern is the possibility for noise nuisance disturbance
to the immediate residents from customers drinking on the premises,
including music, people outside the venue smoking
and customers living at late night.
That concludes my presentation of the report.
I'm happy to answer any questions the member may have regarding this application.
Otherwise, back to you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Do members have any questions for Abraham?
Nope.
All right.
I now invite Amit Patel to speak on behalf of the applicant supporting the application.
You have five minutes.
Thanks for having us here on our application today.
My name is Anish Patel, this is Amit Patel.
We are both brothers and the co -owners of Idle Moments Limited.
We run an established independent specialist shop,
particularly focusing on biodynamic wine and other beverages on Columbia Road.
Currently have a premises licence for off sales and we have applied to bury our licence for sales on the premises
and to extend our hours slightly.
We have a five year track record of operating the site at Columbia Road responsibly.
We have already tested on sales by temporary event notices which we have used to run wine
tastings at the site, which has given us the practical experience of managing premises
consumption on the premises in a responsible way.
We have no history of the type of nuisance that residents understandably fear.
What we're actually proposing is a modest evolution of the existing business,
not to convert our existing wine shop into a pub or a late night music venue.
It's a small, only 500 square feet shop, intimate space,
where we'll continue to have curated biodynamic wine and other beverages
in a mature and calm atmosphere.
The hours we have applied for are within the core hours of the Tower Hamlet's licencing
policy and notably the hours are less than neighbouring premises such as the Birdcage
pub.
We have also agreed substantial conditions with the Environmental Protection who have
since withdrawn their objection.
The photos and visualisation at exhibit one of our supplementary submission can help show
the committee the type and scale of the operation envisaged.
We'd like to also point out to the committee that my brother and I have also operated three
other licenced premises in neighbouring Burrow Hackney, one of which has been running for
13 years, and so we have a strong track record of operating premises with on -sales, alcohol
on -sales in a responsible way.
Turning to the objections, I'd like to point out that there are no responsible authorities currently objecting to the application.
We received three objections from neighbouring residents.
Note that we did not receive any objections from the residents who live immediately above our shop,
who we believe to be in support of our application.
We did listen to the objections and engage with the neighbours who did object to our application.
We agreed extensive conditions with the environmental protection which are in the exhibit.
In those conditions we've agreed that music will only be ancillary to the operation,
that music will always be at a background level and so as to never cause a nuisance or disturbance to the neighbouring residents.
We've also limited to smokers outside the premises to three people at a time, as agreed with the environmental protection.
We also agreed conditions to deliveries, waste at unsociable hours, no external speakers, and vibration dampening material in relation to the speakers that would be used, which would otherwise be used for background only anyway.
The strongest objection we received was perhaps from Mr. Malika at 84A, directly above Idle Moments, who understandably raised concerns about bass and vibration from the premises.
after we explained the conditions we've agreed with the Environmental Protection,
he responded that the changes were very kind and in mind with the neighbourhood,
and we've attached a copy of that response as an exhibit to our application.
We accept that it's not technically a formal withdrawal,
but it is an important evidence of the engagement and additional safeguards
that we've taken to address the concerns of people living nearby.
OK, turning to the objections for Mr Adler,
I think I'd just like to point out that mischaracterisation of the application of turning it into a music
with bar, a bar with music, we've clearly said that the music will only be ancillary
and background only, noted about legitimate concern about it being a residential area
but we feel like we've addressed that with the environmental protection.
The hours are clearly less than the other more substantial venues in the area such as
The mention of there being enough pubs and restaurants is essentially a need and demand
argument which is not relevant representation for the purposes of a licencing application,
which should be based around upholding the licencing objectives.
Thank you.
Now can I invite Timothy Adler to speak in objection to the application.
you have five minutes.
Okay, thank you.
Can you hear me?
So, Columbia Road is an unusual street
and that most people think that it's a commercial street,
but it's mixed use.
And all the, above all the shops,
they're all flats that people live in.
And in the block where Idle Moments is,
you know, there are a lot of flats with young families.
and I've spoken to them and they're very alarmed by what's being proposed.
There are plenty of local bars and restaurants yards away,
as the applicant alluded to, there's a big pub on the corner,
on the other corner there's a large restaurant and bar, which is quite noisy,
So I really don't see where the need is coming from for this turning into an on -licence premises.
I really don't see any wider benefit to the community.
What's it bringing to our community, which is a residential community?
The only benefit I can see is to the applicant.
Also the nature of the business keeps changing.
I don't know if I'm allowed to ask a question
of the applicant, but am I right in thinking
the idle moment began solely as a?
Excuse me, we don't, normally we don't ask
if there's no permission to question.
You can certainly ask the question rhetorically.
It may be something that the members will wish to ask.
Okay.
You can certainly ask the question if that makes sense.
Okay, I understand the protocol.
So perhaps Councillor Hussain could ask.
My understanding is that the idle moments originally began solely as a vinyl record shop.
Then it began selling wine off licence.
Now it's asked for the licence to become on premises.
I mean, what's next?
Presumably the next stage will be food.
My other concern is that the licence stays with the premises.
Although the applicants have been very communicative, my concern is once it's there, the licence stays there.
Future tenants may not be as accommodating.
So those are my objections and all I can do is speak on behalf of the other objectors who have written in, objecting to the lessons.
Thank you. Do members have any questions to either parties?
So I can start. You mentioned recorded music and I think I'll get my colleague Jonathan
here to confirm but if it's background music I'm not sure if you need the licence for that.
Is it, could you, or was it?
Yeah, so essentially recording music is only licenseable
when it's being, effectively it's being played at a background level
where the music itself is part of what's being supplied
so you can go into lots of restaurants and places.
If your client at Klingon Toll can have a normal conversation
without having to shout above the music
then you're not actually carrying on the regulated entertainment
and it doesn't need to be licenced.
You would still need it, and if the premises licence was granted for the on -sales,
then you would be able to carry that on between 8 in the morning and 11 at night in any event,
without the need for it, where you would need it nonetheless, is after 11 o 'clock,
which you have applied for, but it does then, and I was going to be asking this if the members didn't,
it is somewhat inconsistent with the condition with
the noise team, that the background music will be at a background level
because if it's a background level only, then you simply don't need the regulated entertainment at all
if that makes sense. It's one of the things that does confuse people
in large part, and the assumption is quite often if I'm playing any sort of music
then I need the licence, but if your intention is only to operate
at the background level, then arguably speaking you probably don't need regulated entertainment
at all.
And just to add on, my question is, you mentioned, my question is on noise disturbance and going
on to the vibration.
What measures have you put in place to actually mitigate those potential impacts that could
cause to neighbours?
Well, I guess as yet we're not operating in the way we would intend to, but if we did,
we would have, I think we have agreed a condition whereby the manager would be responsible for
ensuring that the volume levels of the system are compliant with the noise management plan
that we've submitted, that we've submitted to the Environmental Protection and to ensure
that it complies with the condition that it does not disturb the neighbouring premises.
So those are enforceable. I think we had discussed with the environmental protection sound limiters,
but it seemed disproportionate in terms of cost for actually what we're intending to do,
which is play background music to people drinking wine.
So I think, yeah, in relation to your point, perhaps I have misunderstood,
but I think I'd understood after 11 o 'clock, playing music in the background is potentially regulated entertainment.
So I think, are you saying that only if the music was being played by a paid performer that it would be regulated entertainment?
Because that seems kind of inconsistent with other advice we've previously had.
So I guess just to point the other thing to mention is you've probably noticed a lot of
restaurants in London these days may have a turntable in the corner of the room where
the staff are putting on a record whilst people are dining. And it throws into question, is
that regulated entertainment or can that be considered if it's at a background level?
I think our preference is obviously to have the condition that we comply to with comply saying its background
background level but not have the ambiguity of
Putting on a record and not knowing whether it's regulated or not after 11
Ultimately, it's going to be a massive
I mean, I'm obviously here to give legal advice to the subcommittee not to other people. I can obviously explain what the general
position is. I mean, I do notice in terms of paid performers you haven't actually asked for live music, it is only recorded music,
so that's really what I'm going to focus on, but as I say, if the music is going to be at a background level, even if it takes place after 11 o 'clock,
then it's arguably not regulated. I mean, the condition can go on there and the committee can grant it if that's what they see fit,
But as I say, sometimes obviously what happens is the application for regulated entertainment is put on as a misunderstanding.
Once people understand that they're then quite happy to simply withdraw that aspect of it from the application.
In which case there's no need for any of those conditions and it's still entirely clear.
But it's helpful to obviously have that discussion and make sure we know what you want.
Can I ask a question to you, Brian?
Just one question.
From the applicant's previous tens, do we have any records of complaints?
Just hold on a second.
I got some notes I just turned.
Okay.
27th of May, 2026.
Complaints received.
selling alcohol from outside the premises without a licence.
That's what we have received. There's only one complaint.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Sorry. On 27th of May, 2026, we have received a complaint.
A complainant saying, selling alcohol from the premises without a licence.
Well, obviously they have a licence.
So that was information no action was taken.
Yeah, I think I have to say formally that needs to be disregarded.
Yeah, Dore is disregarded.
And then lastly, my question is how would you respond to some of the concerns about the variation that it could change to a restaurant or a bar later?
I think that's not really a question for the
applicant at the end of the day every application is going to need to be dealt with on its own merits if they decide to
Then they're going to have to come back and explain what they're
planning
on doing
Council Ahmed
Thank you
From Timothy what he said understood from Timothy is the concern for residents. I mean I
I can see the financial obligations, but how can we outweigh the risks of the noise that
disturbs the antisocial behaviour that possibly might come out from extending the licence?
And how can we mitigate the noise and the antisocial behaviour that might come out from
increasing this licence?
I think that's what Timothy was saying before.
Could you just clarify this, please?
I think it's important to keep in mind the scale of what we're proposing to do as compared
to a pub that could host 100 people. What we are intending to do is sell very specialist
wine in a quiet environment that could only host 20 to 30 people perhaps at maximum at
any one time and it's intended to actually, we actually feel quite confidently that rather
than contribute to the cumulative impact it might actually help reduce it. It gives people
perhaps of our age who don't necessarily go to, I don't personally go to the Birdcage
pub that often and I don't necessarily want to go to the Royal Oak. Sometimes I'm looking
for somewhere quieter, smaller, more intimate to have a drink with a friend. So I think
I think we've put forward already quite a few conditions
considering the size of the operation and the premises.
I think the conditions already give quite strong assurances
and we've said that there will be no noise to cause any nuisance to any neighbours.
I think that is a strong enforceable legal condition on our licence
that could be called into question should any disturbance be caused by antisocial behaviour.
But going beyond that in terms of adding further conditions could actually just hamper the viability of the offering.
I think any conditions need to be proportionate to the scale of what we're doing.
Understanding in the scenario of a bar or a nightclub or a large restaurant you might need further conditions.
But I think when we're talking about somewhere the size of, as you can see in that image,
I think what we've already given should quite confidently address the concerns of neighbours.
I do actually feel that the objectors will change their mind once they see what our operation actually will be like in practise.
I respect the concerns and as I would be if I was a resident, but I think once they see how we operate and what we actually make of the place,
I feel confident that they will be a welcome part of the community.
Do you have anything to add?
Do you want to turn your mic off?
And I've just got last questions from me.
What's the maximum capacity you have at any one time?
And you mentioned the three people, maximum three people smoking outside.
Do you have any policies or anything in place for people who are potentially drinking on the curb?
Or is it just three people for smokers?
or what about just people who aren't?
So we have a maximum of three people at any one time outside.
No beverages allowed outside.
There's in the noise management plan,
there's a requirement that for there to be no open windows
to allow noise to emanate from the premises,
for the door to be kept shut at all times.
So I think, again, I think that sort of adequately have addressed
the potential risks of people using the premises to be antisocial or cause the servants to
neighbouring premises more than otherwise exist already on a busy street.
Thank you.
Do you want to turn that off again?
Jonathan, do you want to add on to anything?
Yes, please, Chair.
Just in relation to smoke, if the licence is granted, obviously sometimes the people
leaving with drinks can be a problem. Obviously you've got on and off sales which means that
patients would be technically allowed to leave. Sir, and it's not, I've just been looking
on your current licence and it's not covered, so would you be, if the licence is granted,
would you be amenable to a condition that prohibits patrons from taking drinks outside
with them when they go to smoke so that they can't drink on the street?
Yes, yes, we would. And for the record, that's how we operate in the other licenced premises
that we talk about and that we've run in Hackney.
Thank you. No more questions? All right. Now moving on, concluding remarks. To the objector,
you have one minute.
My biggest concern is that this is going to set a precedent. It would be the first time
that any of the shops on Columbia Road has been converted into a bar.
This is a conservation area and it needs to be respected as such.
I think it's going to fundamentally change the nature of the street.
And for what it's worth, I don't just speak on my behalf,
but as Secretary of the Jesus Hospital Estate Residents Association.
Thank you.
Thank you. And now can I ask the applicant for their concluding remarks. You have one
minute.
Yes. So I think I'd just like to raise the precedent point. I think each, as I'm sure
you guys are aware, each application is always considered individually on its merits. No
one successful application sets a precedent for another. So I think it's a good thing
There's no way that granting our application would lead to a cascade of Columbia Road turning
to bars and restaurants.
That would each application be considered separately.
I think there's an understandable concern running through all the representations that
at the moment will become another late night music led bar, but that simply isn't the operation
that we're presenting before the committee.
It's a five year established specialist, retailer, experienced licenced operators looking to
to have set up a carefully managed on premises offering with background music only.
We have agreed a substantial package of enforceable conditions considering the site of the premises
and we would request the applications granted as applied for with the conditions agreed
and any other which is considered appropriate.
Thank you.
You can turn your mic off.
Thank you all for your contributions today.
The subcommittee will deliberate in a private session after this meeting ends and the democratic
services will forward the decisions to members and yourselves in the next five working days.
Thank you.
Sorry?
And then extensions of deadlines.
All right, yeah.
So Justina, could you kindly list the applications decision deadlines which have been extended
until 31st December 2026 please.
Yes, Chair. The following have been extended until the 31st of December.
People's Letter 295 Cambridge Heath Road, London E29RA, Zuzu, sorry 9A Heron Wharf,
Road, E14OQG, Chinatown 7 The Quarterback, London E14 8SH, TGF Pizza 2 Midlothian Road,
London E34 SE and Unit 1 Land Joining Hamlets Industrial Estate, 96 Whitepost Lane, London
E95 EN.
Thank you, Justina.
This concludes the business for this meeting.
Thank you all for your time.
The next meeting will take place on Thursday 15th October at 6 .30.
Oh, sorry.
That's been cancelled.
Good night.