Licensing Sub Committee - Tuesday 2 December 2025, 2:00pm - Tower Hamlets Council webcasts

Licensing Sub Committee
Tuesday, 2nd December 2025 at 2:00pm 

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Good afternoon, everybody.
Welcome to this meeting of the licencing committee of the London Borough of town Hamlet sale today, Tuesday the 2nd of December
2025
My name is um, Peter Gold's and I chair the licencing committee and I will be chairing the meeting this afternoon
The meeting will be held in person
But one or two people will be coming to us online
It will also be it will also be available on the council webcam
so members of the public can watch if they so wish now or indeed archive for a future
occasion.
Therefore, may I tell you some house rules regarding the webcam.
One, please only speak when I indicate we do not appreciate people trying to cut across
anybody else.
And because of the webcam, when you speak, you press the button in front of you, and
you conclude you switch it off because the webcam will not pick up two buttons going
at once. So we could have a situation of anybody watching, they'll just see mouths opening
and shutting. So if I see two and I do see the light, if I do see the light on, I will
signal to people to do so. May I now invite members and officers to introduce themselves,
starting with Councillor for a comment
Good afternoon on councillor Faruq Ahmed
Afternoon I'm Jonathan Melnick and legal advisors to the subcommittee and to my right is my colleague miss Sarah long
Simi has been democratic services
Thank you very much that is the formality so everybody knows who we are
As the quorum of the committee is three members and there are three members present we have no apologies for absence
I now move to decorations of interest as any I have no declaration of interest on
On the items before us to any members have a declaration of interest
Not thank you
I don't but just for transparency. I have received an email from East London mosque imam regarding
133 Watchful Road. Thank you very much Councillor Ahmed.
Ms. Yasmin will note that. Rules of procedure are on pages 9 to 18.
I have specified that we don't appreciate people trying to cut across.
If you have a point, put your hand up and I will call you.
As we go through the meeting, I will explain the process.
So that is that.
We now conclude to note we now move to Item 3 on our agenda pages 19 to 70 on our bundle,
which are the minutes of the previous meetings.
We are required to note the minutes of the licencing subcommittees held on the 2nd and
14th of October and the 4th of November.
Could everybody agree that we note those minutes?
Thank you very much, colleagues.
I will do this sign them off the meeting. We now move to item four on the agenda items for consideration item 4 .1
Which is an application for a variation of premises licence the German donor kebab
207 mile in Road e14 a a miss yes, ma 'am
Sure, this has been resolved prior to the meeting. So therefore will no longer require consideration at today's licencing subcommittee
Thank you very much that is recorded item 4 .2 is the it was an app that is an application
for variation of a premises licence for KFC and for the purposes of everybody washing
that's Kentucky Fried Chicken 381 Mile End Road London E3 pages 107 to 152 in the bundle
Miss Yesmin.
Thank you chair for this application and we have Kirsty Hughes who's the licencing representative
and she's joining us virtually.
We also have Mr. Onohoha O 'Leary from Environmental Health
who's also joined virtually.
Chair, this application has been resolved, however,
due to the lateness of the withdrawal
from Environmental Health, Mr. O 'Leary will need
to formally withdraw his objection at the meeting.
We'd like to hear from both.
Thank you very much.
And as we understand that issues have been resolved,
could we know what the resolution actually is?
Thank you.
Miss Hughes.
.
Thank you very much, Mr. O 'Leary.
We now move to the application for a new premises licence for Smokey Boys, 133 Whitechapel Road,
London, E11DT, pages 153 to 262.
We will proceed now to a hearing, and we will then adjourn to consider the representation.
I should I will identify the applicant
We have we the app
Well, we have before us Kirsty Hughes and licencing representative. Oh
Goodness gracious, sorry. I've um, yes, of course. I've got it for right. I'll call the names out if they could identify them. Mr
Mohammed Rahman
Good afternoon
Mr. Mohammed Mitter.
The objectors are Cathy Driver.
Mr. Sherlock of Environmental Health whom I recognise.
The process of a limitation, the gentleman I do not recognise I assume is Mr Hart, the
resident.
Good afternoon.
Thank you.
That is how we can work on that.
We now proceed to consider the application formally, having introduced everybody in the
first stage will be for the licencing officer, Ms Holland, to present the report.
And when we go through, and indeed when we are talking to it, if I could ask people if they are referring to the report before us to identify the pages,
because there is nothing more frustrating than somebody speaking on a subject and saying it's in your bundle and you're going like this trying to find it.
We've got a lot of paper before us, so we do need to know where we are.
Thank you very much on that and I now invite Ms Holland to present the report.
Thank you chair. This is an application for a new premise licence for a premises
called Smokey Boys at 133 Whitechapel Road London E11DT. The
It's slightly confusing, this application, was that it was applied as a public house.
It said it would operate as a traditional public house providing alcoholic, non -alcoholic
beverages as well as freshly prepared hot food. In negotiation with the police, they
have withdrawn alcohol from the application and therefore the application has significantly
changed and they've also reduced the hours that they've applied for. For a bit of history, this
premises is always been historically a public house, licenced premises, used to be called
Indo, but the licence lapsed in 2022 and it has since then been a sweet shop and a takeaway.
There are, I know it's a separate issue, but obviously there are quite a bit of planning details in the report because there's quite an involvement with planning regarding these premises.
The original licence, which is obviously now lapsed, is in Appendix 11, which is on page 255 for your information.
So, and then the hours that that premises licence had is on page 154, also just for
your information. Now a copy of the application and the plans for this are shown in appendix
one, which are page 164 to 188. The hours initially applied for have now been reduced
and the reduced hours are on page 155 and the agreement made with the police
is in appendix 10 on page 247. So what is currently being applied for is recorded
music Monday to Sunday 12 till 9 p .m. late night refreshments Sunday to
Thursday, that only kicks in at 11pm, so 11pm to midnight, Friday and Saturday 11pm till
1am, and then the opening hours are 12 midday to midnight in the week and 12 midday till
1am Friday Saturday. They've also applied for non -standard hours for late night refreshments
and opening times during the month of Ramadan.
So for that month they've applied for Sunday to Thursday to be open till 3am,
Friday and Saturday to be open till 4am.
Maps showing the vicinity of the premises are in appendix 2 on page 190.
Photographs can be seen in appendix 3 on page 192.
and their nearby licence premises are shown in appendix 4 on page 197.
There have been relevant representations made to this application.
As I stated, the police have withdrawn their application, sorry, their representation,
but the licencing authority, that can be found in appendix 5 on page 199, starting then.
The noise team in appendix 6 starting on page 205 and Daniel Hart a resident appendix 7
page 208. The applicant made a response to the licencing authority and that can be seen
in appendix 8 on page 293 and then their response to the environmental protection team which
which includes a noise and dispersal plan, can be found in Appendix 9 on page 243.
Section 7 of the report on page 157 listed the conditions operating schedule, but obviously
some of these now will be obsolete as a result of the changes that have
subsequently been made and then the conditions agreed with the police are on
page 158 and 159 and that's a report thank you chair
Thank you, Chair.
Just before the applicants present, there is also a little bit of confusion in relation
to the regulated entertainment.
Music is only regulated where it is effectively above background level.
In your application, you say music will be played at a background level.
and it's also said that the recorded music will be unamplified,
which with respect doesn't seem to make very much sense,
because I can't see how you can play recorded music
without it going through an amplifier of some description.
So it seems that there is a possibility that what's being sought
in relation to regulated entertainment isn't in fact regulated entertainment,
and I'm wondering if that is the case, then you could perhaps consider
withdrawing that aspect now on the committee and then focus solely on the
late -night refreshment. If you do intend to play music above a background level
and just to give an example if people have got to shout to speak over the
music then that's clearly going to be regulated so perhaps you can discuss and
then confirm.
I have to come
Good afternoon chair. Yeah, we won't be playing music above background level. So we will withdraw that from the application. Thank you. Thank you
Do men do members have any question to miss Holland I don't
to the offices of the applicant and no I don't thank you right we now we now move
to the applicants this is your moment to explain to us why we should I got it I
got it here don't worry I just got so many notes going over all the various
pages, I know where I am.
Don't worry, why the, well, the reason
for granting your application.
Could I point out something, and I hope you've realised this
that the borough has what is known as a CIZ,
a community impact zone.
You are within the community impact zone,
and what you have applied for breaks the rules
of the community impact zone.
Therefore, what we wish to hear from you is why you should break those rules and why the application should be granted,
having broken those rules, and why we should go against the rules to grant your application.
That is basically what we are here to hear today.
Can I also point out to you, and we often get this, we are bound by law to consider only licencing matters.
So it is absolutely irrelevant for you to try and discuss with us your business,
whether it's profitable or unprofitable, or what you're doing.
That is of no relevance.
What is relevant is the licencing matter.
So applicants, the floor is yours for five minutes.
Good afternoon.
After careful consideration from the police and also the local residents,
As you know, we have decided to withdraw the alcohol aspect of the licence.
And also, regarding the cumulative impact zone, we recognise that we are within that zone
and also this is the reason why we have applied for only late night refreshment.
From the last previous legal use, it was a public house led by alcohol,
So we have decided to remove that thus creating a greater and safer community around us and also the hours as well.
We have reduced the hours to 1 a .m. instead of 3 a .m. which was previously the last legal use in the premises.
I think, I mean the issue is that we need to know what you're asking for and why you want it.
Not what went in the past because of course the old historic licence is no longer with us and you are a new application
Therefore we have to look at the application is we note the fact that you have
Withdrawn the sale of alcohol. It is the provision of reset of refreshment beyond
The beyond the CI said hours or what we call the framework hours
Yes, so this is why we have provided the
noise management plan also the dispersal plan as well making sure that we are keeping the community safe and
providing a valuable
After -hours social space for people to gather in
I think this is turning a bit of a conversation between you and me and which is not what's expected
I think and I'm sorry my job here is to help you as much as possible because we believe very much in natural justice
Therefore we must help you as much as we must help the other side as well
Um, I think you need to X you really must explain to us what you're doing why you're doing it in the hours
So what are you actually what is your offer?
One of the big problems with the CIZ is it does catch late night refreshment and sale
of alcohol.
So the removal of sale of alcohol doesn't deal with it.
The whole point of the CIZ is that there is an over saturation of premises that are licenced
to sell alcohol and or provide late night refreshments.
And obviously, with respect to late night refreshments,
it's the traditional kicking out after hours at 2300.
And open premises will therefore encourage people
to remain in an area that's already oversaturated
with licenced premises.
And when they remain in the area,
that then gives rise potentially to greater issues
in respect of antisocial behaviour, crime and disorder,
et cetera.
So it's those very impacts that an additional licence
in an already oversaturated area is going to have.
And so perhaps if you can explain how, if this application were to be granted, you would
manage to avoid not adding to that already stressed area.
Yes, after speaking with the police and coming up with a plan in terms of reducing crime
and disorder within the area, we have initially applied for a licence till 3 a .m., which we
reduced down to 1 a .m. which was deemed suitable by the police as it reduced
the crime and disorder and nuisance within the area and also with the
dispersal plan and also noise management plan that we have in place we have
reached an agreement with the police that we will be safe to operate within
those hours. Could you tell could you also try and explain to the committee
what you're actually doing, what the premises are doing, what it's all about.
So the premises will be providing refreshments where we will be seated dining so there won't
be any vertical drinking or any standing up like a takeaway or a fast food chain. Thank you.
I think you're getting to the point that we're really trying to say what
you're really doing so it is but you're basically running a restaurant.
Yes, we will be running a restaurant, yes.
That's extremely helpful and you confirm there would be no vertical or anything?
Yes, that's correct, yeah.
At the moment, your planning permission is as a public house.
The restaurant obviously is not a public house.
I'm aware it's in the papers that the local planning
authority served an enforcement notice.
I appreciate you were not the owners at the time,
but the notice runs with the land.
And that notice required the cessation effectively
of the use as at that time cafe -stroke retail, which
was in use class E. And the notice
was appealed and upheld by the planning inspector
on the 12th of November 2024.
So the fact of the matter is that
because that enforcement notice is there,
you are potentially in breach of your planning permission
if this application is granted.
In any event, the licence will only authorise
the late night refreshment.
It won't authorise breaches of planning control.
Is there any intention to deal with the planning permission
and perhaps if there is, why that's not being dealt with
in this instance first?
We will be dealing with the planning matter.
We are dealing in accordance with the law.
Previously we have sorted the matter for the shopfront as well, changing it to a previous
shopfront.
The shopfront is purely the use in terms of the use class, not the alterations.
Don't worry too much about those.
In terms of the licencing objective, this is what we are here to deal with today.
and in terms of the planning we will be dealing with that at a suitable time so
we won't be opening without a planning objection without the objection.
I mean it's a slightly carton and I hate to say this I go back to Mr. Melnick's
and it's a bit of a carton hall situation what comes first the planning
all the licencing. Strictly speaking chair it doesn't necessarily matter
because obviously grant of one doesn't mean grant of the other.
This is perhaps a more unusual situation because the ones that tend to come before this committee
are where there's no planning, enforcement, action already in train and that's really
the difficulty because there is an enforcement notice in existence.
So there is the potential that if this licence is granted, if you carry on licenseable activities
in a cause of that licence you are potentially,
and I'm going to say potentially,
I'm not giving any legal advice,
but you're potentially committing a criminal offence
in planning terms.
And obviously one of the licencing objectives
is the prevention of crime and disorder.
This is a real merry -go -round
and if I could ask you a question,
have you sought legal advice on this application?
Have you been to a lawyer to actually work out
which order you should be in.
Yeah, we have.
So we also have our planning.
They're currently working on applications.
So we're looking to deal with the licencing first,
and then we will deal with the planning afterwards.
Can I just ask Mr. Melnick something?
.
Where I'm trying to help you is that were you to be granted a licence, and because you
have the planning enforcement against you, if you were granted a licence and started
on licenseable activities, you could actually face planning enforcement, which could be
quite draconian.
That's all I'm – I think I've got it right, haven't I, Mr Melton?
Yes.
As I said, they are two separate regimes, and it's – I think as long as the applicant
understands that if this licence is granted today, they are still potentially operating
outside of their planning permission.
So it doesn't necessarily mean that they can justify using the licence at this stage.
It's no different, I suppose, when you've got licencing hours and planning hours where
they're different, you are bound by the earlier one.
So whatever the most restrictive conditions are, those are the ones that bite.
The applicant will, of course, have to take their own legal advice in respect to the planning
scenarios.
What I'm trying to say is where we consider it where we mindful of granting you a licence today
You would have to be very very wary of using it or operating before you have planning permission. I think that the point
We can't hold you to that
But that would be extremely good advice because you might then suddenly find all sorts of things would happen it with planning law
which is quite
Strict and can be quite draconian at times
May I put a question to miss Holland, please because I think this is particularly what are the normal framework hours in the C I said
It's not in the bundle
For licence and by activities Monday to Thursday 6 a .m. To 2330
Friday and Saturday 6 a .m. till midnight and Sunday 6 a .m. till 22 30.
Have you got anything else you you wish to say in representation before we move
questions
We'll have a chance to speak a bit later on
Not at the moment
We now move to those who are objecting to the application and we start with miss driver
I'm acting as the last that's in authority.
Levine obviously put the representation in so I'm covering from Levine's point of view.
Obviously hearing the matters of proceeding that's obviously happened since this first application has come in,
obviously the objection to some degree has changed from the initial objection made,
but essentially the basis is the same, which essentially is obviously falls within a community
of impact area and therefore there is the rebuttable presumption to refuse an application
unless the applicant can show it meets the criteria to not impact on the area.
The application, as you've just recently found out
from the framework hours, is beyond the framework hours
of the council, and obviously we've looked
in greater detail.
Just for a matter of course, obviously the old licence,
when it was a public house previously,
was obviously granted back in March 20th, 2006,
when soon after the new act came into play,
and therefore at that stage there was no community
for impact zones in the council,
so greater hours could have potentially
obviously been applied for
and obviously was granted at that time,
and obviously circumstances have changed since.
In terms of the premises,
obviously it's difficult to gage
because obviously this application
was originally a public house,
and looking at the plans and how that layout is made,
and we can't tell how that premises
potentially is gonna lay out.
So I'm not sure from an applicant's point of view
whether those plans would need to be changed
in order to accommodate a restaurant business
rather than a public house.
The plans sort of indicate there's a potentially
a bar area or it could be a servery, but we're unclear.
There's no detail in there on the tables
and obviously then that gives us the impression
what is the capacity of that premises,
particularly on the levels, the basement indicates
an office space, was that an office space
in terms of public house or is that now gonna be used
in terms of the restaurant?
So I think those sorts of things I think need
to be clarified, should any application be granted
in terms of that, in terms of the plans, et cetera.
Obviously from a point of view of where the premises is, I think the difficulty, certainly from the hours point of view, is that it's directly in front of, in the opposite road to the East London mosque.
and literally out on the front there is that pedestrian crossing directly outside.
And to me that would, certainly for late hours particularly also during the Ramadan hours,
could lead to large crowds forming outside directly on that pedestrian crossing.
And obviously point you in terms of the residents reference to the planning application
where the TfL was stated, and this is on page 223 at 5 .3,
where TfL would expect that area to be kept clear,
particularly for deliveries and courier vehicles.
So that obviously then impacts on if the premises
is operating as a late night refreshment
and they expect delivery vehicles and mopeds
to collect and deliver food.
that will make an impact on certainly linking in again
to the planning permission and also the impact
on the area for those hours.
Obviously we appreciate that there has been a reduction
but I think from experience the premises hasn't operated
even for standard hours to 11 o 'clock
and I think from the applicant's point of view today
in certainly addressing the community of impacts
and is very clearly very limited in experience.
Obviously, I'd also point to you in terms of the conditions.
Obviously, there's a large number of conditions
that have obviously been agreed through the police
and obviously offered, again, as a public house,
particularly conditions that we would expect to have
as the premise is operating with Alcoa,
and obviously a lot of those may be redundant now.
But I'd certainly think if members were considering
granting particularly greater hours in the CIZ,
I think from our point of view,
we would consider the SIA is put in place,
particularly on late hours,
if members were seen to grant any sort of hours passed
to manage that outside area and manage the impact on the area in terms of anti -social behaviour.
I think that really covers my representation, Chair.
Do you wish to ask anything else?
Thank you, Cathy. Can I now move to Mr. Sherlock?
Thank you, Chair. I'm here making representation that was originally submitted by Officer Ibrahim
Elias who has currently left the Council. So the representation that we submitted is
mainly in connexion with the recorded music and also the, and also the, in the operating
outside the core hours of the CISL zone.
And now we have been, we have previously been made aware of that the applicant has removed
the sale of alcohol based on the discussion with police.
But now we've been made aware that the recorded music will not be played above the background level.
However, we are not clear about the detailed speaker location as well as how this music level is going to be managed to not exceed the background level.
And also based on the application,
the original recorded music will cease play at 9 p .m.
But then in the noise management plan,
the time is not specified in this submitted plan.
So, and also the delivery and waste collection
also have not provided cleared hours.
So therefore, we are not sure if this will fall outside the generally permitted call
hours.
And also in the closing procedure of their submitted noise management plan, didn't include
the lead time to the closure.
So these are the points that we are unclear of
and therefore this is summarised our representation.
Thank you, Chair.
Quite a few points there.
Now Mr. Sherlock.
Now move to Mr. Sherlock.
Mr Hart, sorry.
Thank you, Chair.
Just by way of a bit of background,
I'm a concerned resident neighbour, I guess.
I have an apartment that is towards the rear
of the premises, 133 Whitechapel Road.
I've got a courtyard terrace area
that 133 backs directly onto.
I want to say to the applicant I'm not here to cause them any problems.
I've just got a legitimate concern about noise and potentially odour and how it might affect
my property, particularly bearing in mind some of the historical events that have been
associated with the premises before.
I should say also that I'm grateful for the changes that were made to the application,
So no longer seeking alcohol licence and also the reduction in hours
I'm grateful for that, but I do still have remaining concerns
Because the potential for noise and over disturbance is still there from my perspective
And that's primarily as a result of the existing extractor fan
Could you hold on a second mr. Hart mr. Melnick news to intervene so I was just going to say mr.
Strictly speaking that it the possibility of odour is not likely to be public nuisance for the purposes of the licencing committee
That's not so it couldn't be dealt with by other regimes as perhaps if you really focus on
You know the noise issues if those are the concerns that's really what the committee could be focusing on. Yeah
So focusing on the on the noise and that's primarily as a result of the
existing extractor fan and flue pipe
Chimney and of any equivalent that they might might be installed as a replacement to the one that's already there
The existing extractor fan and flue pipe chimney was installed by the previous occupants
And that was done. I know I know planning is not relevant to this application
But it was installed without the Planning Commission when they also changed the facade and when they also
Changed the use from pub to restaurant
without planning Commission
That flue pipe is not only unsightly but it's also intolerably noisy.
It's made from flimsy aluminium it seems to me and it's at quite a low level in height
and unfortunately the noise reflects and reverberates around the various walls that surround the
courtyard area which makes the noise even worse.
Now I understand that there's, and I know it's not relevant
to this application directly, but I understand
there's ongoing enforcement process in relation
to that flue pipe, and although, as mentioned earlier,
the front facade is being restored pursuant
to a recently obtained planning commission
to put the facade back to how it was,
as you've mentioned, there isn't yet planning permission
sort or obtained for the change of use.
However, despite all of that, there remains a concern
that the occupants will use the existing flue pipe
were this application granted.
And indeed, they may instal an equivalent.
And indeed, it's already currently being used periodically.
So I don't know whether that's part of the ongoing works that are going on, whether they're testing it or whether it's been used for different purposes,
but I can already hear it periodically when they switch it on and off.
So I'm obviously concerned that that would continue were the licence granted.
And it's in that context, because I appreciate that's more of a planning issue than a licencing issue,
but it is within that context that I raise a further concern about licencing.
Because from my perspective, although, obviously, I'd rather not have the noise at all, I don't
know whether the outcome of the planning is going to be in relation to that flue pipe.
And therefore, were we to get a licence granted for something, for time periods going up to
12 o 'clock or 1 o 'clock or 3 o 'clock or 4 o 'clock, depending on the day, I'm not only
going to have to put up with the noise of the flue pipe potentially during the day,
But also I'm gonna have it during these extended hours.
And therefore that's why this interacts with the licencing
application as well as being part of the planning.
Cuz were this granted and the planning issues said that they
could continue to use it, then I'm gonna get that noise during
the evening of these late hours as well.
So ideally from my perspective, if there were to be a licence,
ideally there would be some sort of condition that requires
the extraction flue pipe to be removed and any equivalent means that there won't be the
same noise.
Obviously licencing hours beyond 11 o 'clock are of concern to me generally for the other
reasons mentioned by the other people here.
So if there are other sources of noise at early hours of the morning that would be a
concern to me too.
But really what I'm doing is supplementing what's already been said, particularly in
Fluid pipe because that's my main concern the moment the noise caused by that both during the day and then into the into the late hours
Thank you very much, Jeff
Thank you, thank you very much mr. Hart and I do apologise for
Your name incorrectly we now moved questions from either parties and
I'll put a couple of questions to start with and I invite I obviously have colleagues would
invite questions
Firstly I go to the applicants you've heard
You heard me. I'm asked miss Holland the licencing officer to give the framework hours in the
Ciz community of impact zone so they're publicly on record
For your information they are Monday to Thursday up to
1130
Friday to Saturday, midnight, Sunday up to 10 .30.
May I have your views on those?
In terms of the hours that we're operating
or just the community impact zone hours frameworks?
Were they the hours for your refreshment,
aren't they, basically?
That's the closing hours.
That's the licence board.
So are you looking for my views in terms of what we're going to be open to?
They are the framework hours that we use as the basis within the CIS.
I'd like your views on them.
would you accept a condition to use for those hours?
In terms of the objections that have been put in place, we will be looking to...
I haven't asked about the objections, I'm coming to that.
Would you, in your application, accept those as your licencing, as your hours?
Yes, that's fine. We can stay within the framework hours.
That's extremely helpful.
Can we now move to the point that has concerned me, concerned me when it was raised and Mr.
Iver raised it.
And if we go to page 223, which are the issues that the various other organisations have
Raised and in particular we have for example transport for London
who
have
It's almost a slightly convoluted way. They do things they just say they do not this is what they expect
if it were not to be then they will object and I
Don't know if you've got 223, but I'll read it to you due to the site's proximity of a signal -controlled
which is the crossing which is outside your premises.
The site should be prohibited from offering courier delivery
service to prevent mopeds or other delivery vehicles
gathering in the public highway in the vicinity of the site,
which may hinder pedestrian safety.
All servicing arrangements for the restaurant must adhere
to local on -street waiting log and stopping restrictions.
The signal control crossing adjacent to the site
must not be blocked and obstructed at all times.
No chairs or tables shall be placed in the public highway
Footway of the a11y chapel road at any time
Therefore they're saying if these conditions are added to the conditions of us granting
They would not object if these conditions are not there. They will object. What are your views on that?
I think we're basically very concerned on this, on the prospect of what would happen with delivery vehicles.
Basically, are you going to have off sales?
In terms of deliveries? Yes, we are looking to have.
So in terms of the history of this place, we are looking to have deliveries as well, yes.
Have you did you get what I just read from what TFL said mr. Melny
Do you understand right what the committee have basically suggested if they're minded to grant they are looking at imposing conditions in line with what?
TfL objected to in planning terms
Which will prevent mopeds or other delivery vehicles gathering on the public highway things like that
and no tables and chairs on the highway at any time,
and ensuring that your deliveries,
whether it's deliveries for collection
or whether it's deliveries of supplies,
should not, Wolofsy needs to adhere
to any local traffic restrictions.
Do you understand those conditions
that you'd be willing to accept?
We'll instruct the delivery guys,
they will not, in front of the shop,
they will not come and they will be parked little away.
we'll take the load like carry from the distance so that the pedestrian crossing in front of the shop,
there will not be any obstruction for the pedestrian or any source of vehicle.
We'll abide by the laws strictly, we'll take the delivery even from a distance, we'll strictly follow it.
Thank you, sir.
I
Must come to the point
If you do go to our if you do permit off sales
Where will your delivery people park themselves up because it's not only mopeds. It's these it's now the fashionable electric bikes
Where are they going to be?
There is off street literally right next to our premises, which is very close to us. So this is where they can park
Did you name the street I can look up
I
Think these the problems I've got to raise but obviously I don't want to hold the thing
So I've got my colleague counsellor for a comment
Thank You chair
Basically the same question concern about the
Uber driver or just two drivers
They normally comes with the bike
Riding on the pavement. I mean from what capacity or how you intend to control these drivers not to come
To your shop front or on the pavement. I mean, how would you control that?
Initially this will instruct everyone because thereby nearby there are some places
So we'll be there if someone park in top of the shop on the you know, pedestrian
Footpath will say that please park the your cycle
In the designated place nearby because there are places nearby
So there will control this way and we require them if someone do not park someone parking for about we say that will not give
You the delivery you have to park it to the right place. Then we are going to give you the delivery
Uh,
thank you for that.
What is the staging capacity in your
restaurant.
Brewers
try sitting capacity is.
Including
six on the you know high temperature including all these 36.
32 in the restaurant and where is the other four? I come again
30 in the like you know main seating area and in the wall hanging chair we
have like six person can sit there while hanging you know a bit high so it is
So including those six we have 36 sitting total
Thank you for that
Sure
Yes
as you mentioned page number two zero nine
Door and window will be keep closed during the late hour and stop will be monitoring my other level
Could you explain to me the how to?
handle the one
So in terms of the premises we will make sure that they so I think this point is a bit redundant now
That the music is not going to be playing out loud. So I
Think this was due to the recorded music and amplified music that was applied for initially
So I think this was in regards to that point, but this will probably not be
Obvious really
Thank you
I've just look I did
As most people know me know that well now I know this area only too. Well. I just checked the street names
So what's the absolutely sure the streets were talking on a Davenant Street and Greet Eric Street?
Anybody and I suspect my two council colleagues and exactly what I'm about to say
Anybody who knows they're they're crowded. They're full of people
There's cars going up and down, there's pedestrians going up and down.
We can't have lots and lots of people with bikes going on there.
I mean the idea that you could have delivery people in either of those would, in my humble
opinion, provoke a review of your licence by local residents.
And they're not even that near to you.
I mean it's a bit of a distance at either of them.
So I think the street is about maybe a one minute walk from there.
And in terms of the, there is a designated area for cycles and motorcycles to park the vehicles there.
And we aren't estimating a large number of takeaways.
Mainly we are focusing on a dining restaurant so there will be the odd occasional takeaway.
But this will not be the primary focus of the restaurant.
Thank you, Chair.
This question is related to Ramadan.
Do you know Ramadan, obviously, regardless of the extended hours from early night, start
from Taraweeh or even after Iftar, there's been a large crowd gathering around.
So do you have any plan that how you will control or how you're going to keep clear
or less crowded to your shopfront?
Do you have any plan on that?
I think in terms of during Ramadan, if you do have a look in front of the mosque, there
is usually a large crowd there already.
Without our presence, there is usually a large crowd present there already.
I think with us being there, we will take away from that in terms of people will come into the shop
and there will be less of a crowd forming outside onto the street and more people will come into the shop
therefore reducing their impact in that manner.
May I include something on this regard?
That we'll have like, you know, during Ramadan people normally they like to dine in instead of they take away
So we have mainly the hot food like keeping the heated country so that we can serve hot food,
then take it away. So we can prepare more in advance, so that people don't have to wait for
a long time and they can take it away, they can have their suhoor and others. So this is the plan.
Think you've just added something completely different on your licence application
Mr. Melny
Just a couple of space more technical points
Firstly, who is actually going to be, if the licence is granted, the licence holder?
Because the application form refers to a company called Amur Ventures Limited, but then in
the section where it asks if you are applying in a non -individual capacity, i .e. as a business,
you have obviously put your name, Mr Rahmat.
Is it intended that you yourself will be the licence holder or is it intended that the
company will be the licence holder, please?
We will go with the company, sorry.
I think it was a mistake in putting my name, so it would be the company Amrit Ventures Limited.
I suspect that might be the case. I'd have wanted to cheque.
The other question is in relation to the plans. Is there any intention to use the basement area,
or is the licence by activity only going to be taking place on the ground floor?
Yes, they will be only taking place on the ground floor.
Have you looked at the conditions of were we mindful of granting something within the
framework hours?
Have you looked at the conditions that are usually imposed on premises within the framework
hours?
Outside of this premises?
So we're looking, I have looked at other premises, yes.
I
Mean much of it will can will concern your operating hours what you can and can't do times of dispersal
Which are all pretty easily manageable?
were we mindful to grant, and I would invite my colleagues to consider this,
is this issue of conditions as imposed by Transport for London
of what you can and can't do, because we know only too well
of the handling of the sheer numbers of people that come out of these London mosques
frequently, virtually every day, particularly on Fridays,
And you're referring to Ramadan anybody who knows Whitechapel Road during Ramadan will know it's
Incredibly busy as in each service up to 15 ,000 people are circulating. That's a lot of people
We would have to consider conditions to be fair to be very very strong on that
Are you aware you understand that you can't bring in that?
Yes
Yeah.
For another question.
Just one particular thing you've read
about transfers to London.
I mean, just want to ask the applicant,
did you really understand what our chair
actually read about 5 .3?
Are you very clear about that?
Is that the deliveries for,
the objection for deliveries for transport for London and yes I believe
they do have an objection but in terms of the local area there are many
premises that do take over the deliveries and our main aspect is dining
and we will not be really focusing on the takeaways and deliveries I
I understand that we have a list
We have a list before us your premises are
fronting a crossing
The crossing means that at any point there are
Dozens of people and over any given day thousands of people crossing that road
Controlled to cross the Whitechapel Road, which is a major road. It's an a road a big a road in London
It's also in front of the East London mosque which means there will be additional people
frequently coming out of the station walk from all gate East come up to your zebra crossing and cross the road to go straight into
the main entrance of these London mosque, so
We can't consider other applications. We have to consider. What is before us today and
Our concern are your premises because for better or for worse you sit by the zebra crossing
It's I think it's not a zebra crossing, I think it's a traffic crossing not a zebra crossing, but in terms of the TFO objection I believe what my partner had said in terms of having delivery drivers not parking up in front of the crossing and having them park up on Devon and Street.
I think this will reduce the impact greatly and if they do not park up there. We will not be giving them the delivery
My point is that were we to consider granting the application
This would be a key point of one of the conditions
It will be added as a condition so you
If you were to if you were to contravene it
It gives it means that various responsible authorities, which is licencing etc etc can do the various objections
Do colleagues have any further questions, I'm fruit chair. No, I don't thank you
Now come to the point of of summing up and I will invite the objectors you get a minute
each you've you've listened to the discussions you've listened to the questions going to
and fro so is your point is now to to to sum up to get a minute if we go we go backwards
which will be Mr. Hart to start with then I'll do Mr. Sherlock and then do Miss driver
Mr. Hart
Thank you chair, I wanted to have just mentioned three points that
Have been raised since I last spoke
One of them was the possibility of Davenant Street being used for the bikes
If there were to be deliveries by the apartment block is on Davenant Street
And the the bay for where all the bikes are is almost always full
And so if you were to have bikes in Davenant Street too, then that would be very, very
difficult because the road's always clogged as it is.
In relation to the crowds that come out of the mosque, my concern as a resident would
be that the existence of a restaurant might, especially one with extra hours during Ramadan,
would encourage people to go from the mosque to the restaurant.
And so whilst it might disperse the crowd from outside the mosque, all it'll do is
move the crowd towards the premises across the road.
And we may have people collating outside the premises thinking about whether to go in,
for example, after having visited the mosque.
And so that is a concern to me as a resident.
One other point I didn't mention in relation to the extractor fan, and I know it's a peripheral issue with all these other issues too,
was that my property is already triple glazed and I can already still hear the extractor fan through triple glazing.
So when I go out onto my terrace it is extremely noisy and I know the extractor fan issue is, as I say, quite peripheral issue with all these other issues being raised,
but that is of massive concern to me given the effect it has at the moment already on my
the enjoyment of my residential property. Thank you, Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Hart. Thank you for that point. Mr. Sherlock, Environmental Health.
Thank you, Chair. I would like to, if this
licence is to be granted, then I would suggest that the
the noise control plan need to be detailed,
including the detail of the speakers,
and also the noise control for the plant,
and how the deliveries and the waste collections
and the food deliveries will be managed,
and the detail operation hour
and for these delivery and waste collection
and also how the noise is going to be monitored
and also the closing procedures,
the detail of the closing procedure.
And that summarised my representation.
Thank you.
Ms. Driver.
I think from a licencing authority point of view,
the applicant has limited experience and feel that this applicant has not satisfactorily
addressed the community of impact zone and how they're going to mitigate the antisocial
behaviour issues that have the potential impact on the area, particularly on the concerns
of the impact further afield of the delivery vehicles that we've heard, the impact particularly
on the Shell garage which is probably the most likely place that is going to be used,
which is open 24 -7. We don't think the additional hours for Ramadan would be appropriate in
these circumstances and feel therefore feel that the application should be refused or
particularly very limited or considering an on -sales only use. We feel that the extended
hours particularly given the fact that it is going to affect the wider area
that this should be refused chair thank you very much you've now got a minute
each so you have equal time
regarding during the Ramadan time I have a plan that we'd rather take our food
like with the takeaway sort of thing in that with the heated country we talk in
conjunction with the mosque committee I hope they will allow us and so that
people do not come in a mass volume from other side to the this side so this how
we can minimise the effect of Ramadan I hope that with all of your support we
will be able to manage the kalp kunru because this is really a busy road
during the Ramadan and we due to us there will not be any sort of conjunction there we will try our best.
I think in terms of the hours during Ramadan we're looking to as we said before minimise the public gathering on the street and make sure that is limited from previous times
because there is a large gathering there present without the presence of 133 Whitechapel Road being there.
I think us being there will help minimise that and also help with the dining,
it will help regulate that crowd outside the mosque.
and also in terms of the delivery and waste there's also two bike stands
outside the mosque which can also be used as points for delivery drivers as
well thank you
we know we will now formally well we will formally adjourn this part of the
meeting for your information the decision that will be made will be myself and my two
council colleagues. You will be notified by Ms. Jesmin within five working days as to
what that decision is. And the decision will tell you whether the decision was unanimous
or by vote. For the record, when we do adjourn, we will be advised by Ms. Melnick and Ms.
Jesmin. Ms. Jesmin takes all the notes so she knows exactly what to write in the confirmation
Mr. Melnick will be there for advice. So this point of the meeting is
Concluded and I very quickly move to item 5 which is um any extensions miss. Yes, ma 'am
We have no extensions. So the meeting is now formally closed
at
3 .15. Thank you very much. Thank you all turning and coming
.